An Initiative For The Broads?

[JennyMorgan]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/watch_your_speed_new_speedwatch_group_launches_in_attleborough_1_4947352

Perhaps Lidl or Aldi could do a line in dummy speed cameras kits with 'free' hi vis waistcoats for £9.99? Guards style, high fronted white top hats, complete with pop-up blue flashing lights could be an optional extra. Summertime fun for retired forumites sat outside of the Horning pubs!

[TheQ]

Having seen those cameras / speedwatch in Frettenham a few of years ago improperly using them trying to get "shots" of me on my motorscooter by raising their arm and trying to shoot over the top of a moving car. I would trust their results as much as a politicians words...

(I was well below the limit about to turn right)

Saying that sat in a pub, drinking heavily at a pub, taking pot shots at moving boats they'd probably be more accurate...

[marshman]

To my way of thinking there is very little evidence that much of this has any real impact on speed!

Whilst Norwich, continues to  pour money into new 20mph all over the City and suburbs which are largely ignored, other large metropolitan areas are doing away with them!!   Its the old old story of "Peter and the Wolf"- the odd 20 mph sign outside a school may help but covering the countryside and cities in flashing speed signs, especially in 30 and 40 mph zones as well, has no real impact whatsoever.

If you go to Acle you will see on the road to the bridge, two new fancy road signs with nice new gardens attached, probably no more than 600 m  apart proudly proclaiming that it is actually Acle and its in a 40mph zone - believe it or not THAT is a new project they are going to extend to other places, with lots more flashing signs, to try and reduce speeding! Someone clearly trying to justify their inflated pension!

For what its worth, I believe it is a vastly exaggerated problem!!

[ChrisB]

I have to disagree Marshman. I agree no flashing light will deter the habitual speeder/ Saturday night racer but what they do achieve is to remind normal drivers that their concentration has lapsed or their speed has crept up. Here in North Norfolk we have a number of very long 30mph zones and it is easy to creep up for various reasons. My answer is the cruise control because the roads are quiet and it works but it would not in heavier traffic, where you have to brake etc. I am sure the flashing light has saved many a fine and resultant points. Furthermore having been warned the courts are within their rights to clobber wrong doers hard.

[Bound2Please]

Speed is like the gun argument Ban all guns as the mad man killed X number of people with one. Its not the gun, its the idiot that fired it that dis all the damage. 

The same with speed ................ speed doesnt kill its the driver who cant handle it, or the driver who doesnt know when and where to use it. Driving tests these days is more about the theory, they dont get taught how when and where to safely over take. 

I nearly had an accident last week in a 30MPH area I was doing some thing like 28mph an idiot no an absolute idiot on a push bike with about 1000 watts of led lights on his head and handle bars came out of a side road on the wrong side of the road not stopping and dazzling me, I had to stop for a good 30 seconds or more as all my night vision was lost. They are the biggest danger in 30mph limits not speed.

Gets off soap box

Charlie

[littlesprite]

The ability to drive safely in a 30 mph zone is irrelevant, it's more about the child who suddenly steps out from behind a parked car, that's why limits are now being reduced to 20 mph, even at 30 mph a lot of children will still die.

[vanessan]

Just now, littlesprite said:

The ability to drive safely in a 30 mph zone is irrelevant, it's more about the child who suddenly steps out from behind a parked car, that's why limits are now being reduced to 20 mph, even at 30 mph a lot of children will still die.

This is very true. I strongly disagree with this arbitrary adding on 10% + 2 to a 30mph speed limit. It makes good sense at 60/70mph but IMO 20 and 30mph should be just that, those limits are there for a reason. I'll also add to that - they are limits not targets!

[ChrisB]

I had a sailing friend, sadly no longer with us, who was before retirement a DCI. He told me that 9 out of 10 adults ( not children not elderly ) though badly injured if hit at 30mph survive, at 40mph 9 out of ten do not survive.

Likewise the move on many rural roads to 50mph is about survival rates given a modern car hitting a tree. At 50 it is survivable just about. At the National speed limit in most cases it is not.

[Bound2Please]

There are far more killed on the roads these days, that in the 50's/60's When there was NO NATIONAL SPEED LIMIT ................. I strongly agree with 20mph close to schools. I also agree with 30mph in built up areas where children could be a bout.  But if ADULTS HAVE NO COMMON SENSE AND GET HIT CROSSING THE ROADS all I can say is don't they look before stepping into the road??????????????????????

This country is going all namby pamby

nough said or I'll get angry

Charlie

[grendel]

I have to say I see so many people walking along looking just at their phone and stepping straight out that it does not surprise me. also those people too lazy to walk 30 foot to a crossing, and cross on the apex of the bend at a roundabout (they usually step out while I am looking to the right to see if there is a gap to pull out into, why do they assume its a safe place to cross when the crossing was placed such that you could get out onto the roundabout before stopping at the crossing

[ChrisB]

5 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

There are far more killed on the roads these days, that in the 50's/60's When there was NO NATIONAL SPEED LIMIT ................. I strongly agree with 20mph close to schools. I also agree with 30mph in built up areas where children could be a bout.  But if ADULTS HAVE NO COMMON SENSE AND GET HIT CROSSING THE ROADS all I can say is don't they look before stepping into the road??????????????????????

This country is going all namby pamby

nough said or I'll get angry

Charlie

Don't quite see where you are coming from. Deaths due to traffic collisions were as many as 8000 in the 60s. In 2010 it was slightly below 2000.  It is impossible to compare the 50s or 60s with today. One could say there are millions more cars now so there should be more accidents and deaths but cars  are so much safer in every respect that the death rate has fallen dramatically. In the 60s I drove sports cars who' s steering wheels and columns were there to lance you, many cars had hand brakes designed to remove your knee cap and hardly any cars had seat belts as standard.

[Hockham Admiral]

KE=mv²/2

Whatever units you use at 20mph the v² part is 400 whereas at 30 mph it's 900.....  speed does kill.

[BroadAmbition]

speed does kill.

Well can I politely disagree with that statement?  I've had my Tiger up to around the 140mph mark and regularly over the 100mph mark as easy as wink (On a track before anyone goes all holier than thou) - Result - not even a broken finger nail let alone being killed

I've flown (Passenger) in military jets well over Mach 1 - probably mach 2 - Result - not even a broken finger nail let alone being killed

Various cars well over the 130mph - Result - not even a broken finger nail let alone being killed

Passenger aircraft around 300 mph + - Result - not even a broken finger nail let alone being killed

Military QRB's as coxswain at up to 65 knots - Result - not even a broken finger nail let alone being killed

Some well trained deranged individuals even jump out of aircraft and reach terminal velocity, survive then go and do it again! - Result - not even a broken finger nail let alone being killed

Etc Etc

Speed in itself does not kill, not even cause any harm, in fact for a lot of folk with red blood, it's most enjoyable.    No,  what does kill is collisions or huge deceleration conditions  Usually caused by human error.  If a 40 ton truck hits you or runs over you at 20mph the final result will be the same as if it happened at 100mph.

I hope I kinda put that point over well enough.

Griff

[Maxwellian]

Agree with Griff. It is the extreme deceleration at more force than your body can cope with that gives us the problem. Trouble is you cannot always tell when that is. Best not to go to fast if you cannot guarantee a safe stop.

this coming from a BMW driver......... the outside lane is mine!

 

[ChrisB]

Exactly, the car driver would not experience that at all as he hits an over excited child coming out of school, who's head is filled with God knows what, chattering to his or her friends. And all because he or she is travelling in excess of the speed limit.

I in my employment was once a regular at Millbrook where I have been in excess of 150mph. When you pass a van or any slow moving vehicles lower down on the embankment you get a real appreciation of how thinking and reaction time decreases with speed. 

Speed limits are there for a reason. If I have one criticism of them is they are not applied consistently.

 

[TheQ]

Although modern speedometers read always less than the indicated speed limit by up to 10%, old ones some years ago had a plus or minus accuracy limit, when that changed I can't remember, it is I believe for that reason, they normally allow 10% + 2 to a speed limit.

 Simple things can change the accuracy of your speedometer. Just changing your tyres for a new brand with deeper tread, will mean you are going faster than you were before, for the same indication on the speedo.

An unusual case I know, but  I changed the gearbox on my Landrover, this also required the change of the cogwheel take off for the speedo as without it my speedo would have been out by 20%

Many that accuse people of driving cars over the limit are driving a car with a speedo that is almost on it's maximum legal over read, so that they are driving around in a 30 limit at 27mph at the most often a mph or two less than that and in a 70 limit at 63mph. Using your own speedometer is no guarantee that you know what speed the other person is doing.

More and more often these days I find people driving a 10mph less than the limit, that is their choice although you can be done for obstruction should the police decide that is what you are doing. But  in a 30 limit an indicated 10mph less could be as low as approximately 16mph!!! or a 70 limit doing an indicated 60 approximately 50mph.

[MauriceMynah]

Yes yes yes, we all know it's not speed that kills it's the sudden deceleration or (if you are the one being hit) sudden acceleration. It's not guns that kill, it's the bullet etc. etc etc.

This really isn't the point, the point is that the car has evolved faster than the prat behind it's wheel. It's prats what kill, and sadly you can't make being a prat illegal.

I have said it before and no doubt I'll say it again. If the relevant authorities ensured that when speed limits were applied, they were both appropriate and enforced.

There should be 20 or 30 mph speed limits near all schools enforced with both average speed units and safety cameras. the same should be applied on shopping high streets and the like. All other speed restrictions should be based on the safety record of the road in question.

   

[Springsong]

The reason I never use the North Norfolk coast road ( or at least very seldom ) is the variations of speed limit. Between Kings Lynn 70 mph dual carriage way to Stiffkey 20 mph and every limit in between. jumping between them all in less than a mile. It is very hard to know actually what any given limit is, and don't start me on steep hills with 20 mph limits.

[grendel]

in our area the 40mph limit extends about 4 miles from the centre of town, even on A roads - this is due to the houses with drives straight onto the main road - the excuse given that a child could run out of the driveway - in my opinion this is just an excuse as the driveways are nearly 1/4 mile long with the houses well back from the road. the 50mph limit then extends a further 6 or 7 miles. in all on the 15 mile  A road between Canterbury and Ashford there is about half a mile that is at national limit - the rest is 50mph or slower.

when I was younger I could do the trip between towns in about 20 minutes (and still stick to the speed limits) now I am lucky if I can do the trip in less than 40 minutes sticking to the new speed limits.

It also amazes me that some drivers see national speed limit as 70mph, no- on an single carriageway A road it is only 60mph - well that was what I was taught when I learned to drive, if they havent sneakily changed the rules again.

[smellyloo]

I'm not a great lover of the nanny state but ...............

I would trust the imposed speed limit as an indicator of safe speed over the opinion of  a "Jeremy Clarkson dovotee" behind the wheel of his very large p**is ... sorry car!

[TheQ]

53 minutes ago, grendel said:

in our area the 40mph limit extends about 4 miles from the centre of town, even on A roads - this is due to the houses with drives straight onto the main road - the excuse given that a child could run out of the driveway - in my opinion this is just an excuse as the driveways are nearly 1/4 mile long with the houses well back from the road. the 50mph limit then extends a further 6 or 7 miles. in all on the 15 mile  A road between Canterbury and Ashford there is about half a mile that is at national limit - the rest is 50mph or slower.

 

Technically the national Limit is 30mph, any faster is an exception to the limit.

[kfurbank]

Just now, TheQ said:

Technically the national Limit is 30mph, any faster is an exception to the limit.

The national speed limit sign, white circle with black diagonal stripe is most often seen on Motorways and dual carriageways. It denotes the maximum speed for that type of road and class of vehicle. Exceptions are normally signed with a red circle and figure inside. It should be assumed unless signed otherwise that built up lit areas are 30mph.  

[BroadAmbition]

I would just like to point out that if riding a British bike over 1000cc then solid white lines and the 60 and 70 limits are only advisory  

All bikers know this

Griff

[grendel]

they also know that they are going to come off worse in any incident that happens to them.

[TheQ]

1 hour ago, kfurbank said:

The national speed limit sign, white circle with black diagonal stripe is most often seen on Motorways and dual carriageways. It denotes the maximum speed for that type of road and class of vehicle. Exceptions are normally signed with a red circle and figure inside. It should be assumed unless signed otherwise that built up lit areas are 30mph.  

Not just Built up areas, if for instance you were lost (or more likely someone nicked the signs) you should drive at a maximum of 30 mph till you find a speed limit sign.

See paragraph 2,

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits