Survey Found Osmosis

[Jovril]

Hi all

a survey on a 2002 built boat has shown that the boat has been well looked with no major problems just cosmetic small items to put right.

it has also found that the hull has signs of osmosis. According to the surveyor the blisters are small (5 to 10mm) but are all over the underside of the hull.

The surveyor seems to be to be saying that whilst the problem will never improve it may take years before it gets any worse and independently the broker has made same comments, although I suppose the broker would.

The general feeling being that this is not as much of a problem as has been feared in the past and whilst if it did get to the stage of needing repair this could be very expense but this could be years in the future and perhaps some reduction in price to cover some eventual costs would be the way to go.

The question now is if an agreeable discount can be obtained should the purchase go ahead?

Would welcome you views

John

  

[finny]

It wouldn't worry me and if it did all I would do hard stand the boat over the next winter to dry out - they could even decrease in doing so 

finny 

[ExSurveyor]

If it was a little bit on a 30 - 40 year old solidly built boat I wouldn't have a worry.

On a 16 year old boat,  probably with a thinner lay up I would be more concerned and would seek a substantial reduction.

Osmosis is still an uncertain problem with varying opinions.

[JanetAnne]

There are many boats out there that have had expensive repairs to osmosis following which they haven't sunk.

There are large numbers of boats out there that have had cheaper repairs to osmosis and they didnt sink either.

Then there are the boats whose osmosis was left untreated. They also remained afloat.

There are very very few examples of osmosis actually sinking a boat.... yet. Polyester mite on the other hand...

Osmosis is, however, a useful bargaining tool.

 

[marshman]

Little evidence to suggest any boat has actually sunk as a result of osmosis though - still waive the report under the nose of the Broker and get a chunk off if you can!!

[LondonRascal]

I'd try and negotiate a reduction on price but it depends on how much you want the boat, how long you intend to keep it for etc.

Most boats have some Osmosis and there are various ways to deal with it, from the spend lots to have it put right professionally and hope it is a fix that lasts, let it be as it has been left all this time or do something about it yourself.

Some use a dremal to gently grind out the blisters, let them sit for as long as they can to dry then fill them in, sand smooth and paint over. This is not likely to solve the issue once and for all, but is something some people do with smaller 'infestations' to make the boat hull appear in better condition that it may really be especially when the boat may be sold on.

 

[Jbx5]

Sounds a lot of osmosis for a 16 year old boat, I would say it may have been a problem when the gel coat was done possibly temperature/ moisture in the building it was built.  We had the same situation on our last boat 

We got a 7k reduction in cost which we wouldn’t have had without having  a survey.

John

[JennyMorgan]

I go with Janet Anne's comments on this one, especially those regarding galloping polyestermite infestation.. 

[Vaughan]

Remember what your mother always said? it will never get better if you pick it.

If a boat is going to get osmosis, it will happen in the first 2 or 3 years of its life, after which it will not get any worse.

Painting and antifouling will not cure or prevent osmosis.

One thing you must not do is leave a boat out on the hard if it has bubbles in the bottom. If these bubbles are allowed to freeze, they will burst, and then you have problems. Always leave the boat in the water, in winter.

When selling hire boats we are often asked "But what about osmosis?" The answer is - "There is no extra charge. It is included in the price".

[finny]

Its always going to be a strange topic osmosis on the the other forum there was some very interesting threads over the years usually started from someone buying their first boat  - i also remember one chap on our marina pulled his boat out for maintenance that he was doing diy the hull was peppered with the stuff by chance he was held back on his plans so the boat stayed dry for much longer than planned most of the blisters disappeared now i know on a survey they take moisture readings so does anybody have any thoughts or is there any benefits in letting a hull dry out towards osmosis ??

 

finny

 

[Stationerystill]

My father was a glass fibre pioneer and marine surveyor. He told me he never found a structural failure or a sinking caused by boats having osmosis. I just prick the bubbles and let them dry out for a few weeks before filling with epoxy. It is time consuming, but cheap, and does not need any great skill. There is an osmosis industry dedicated to alarming people and persuading them to have expensive gellcoat removal and replacement but this is not necessary. It is important not to have a boat out of the water with osmosis when it might freeze as ice will damage the laminate as Vaughan has said. You can use the surveyors report to get a discount.

[marshman]

So thats a consensus then??  On this Forum???

[Smoggy]

I'd be more alarmed if an older boat didn't have osmosis as you don't know what has been done to cover it up, I know of a guy who found lots of blisters under his boat so sanded them all flat and painted over them with antifoul to seal them, antifoul that well know porous paint that is designed to erode, It's still afloat 10 years on.....(same guy overheated so layed over the filler cap and undid it to top up, then waited for an ambulance while his face fell off)

Get a discount if you can but if you like the boat and price ignore the osmosis.

 

[JennyMorgan]

49 minutes ago, marshman said:

So thats a consensus then??  On this Forum???

I'm not convinced that we have reached a consensus. However I am convinced that we have some sound advice from folk who are qualified by experience to comment. To suggest otherwise is unnecessary.

I have a forty year old g.r.p. Drascombe, no sign of osmosis whatsoever. My daughter has a 110 year old sailing cruiser, no sign of osmosis either. I have a twenty five year old Shetland dory, loads of it. Conclusion,  osmosis in older boats is not necessarily present so it won't therefor have been covered up!   

[Vaughan]

Stationarystill, you are hiding your light under a bushel! Your father was indeed a pioneer and he was a good friend of every boatyard on the Broads. I remember him well!   

[BuffaloBill]

Just to add my 'pennies worth'....The first boat we were looking

to purchase was so bad with Osmosis that the surveyor(Steve Truss)

 told us to walk away as the boat, in his estimation, weighed an extra

1/2 - 3/4 ton more than if it was dry. He said it needed considerable

time out on the hard to dry out and then be repaired that it was too

costly to be a viable purchase. (Ex Hire boat)

I might add that the boat did sell and is still on the river but I don't

know if it was ever treated or repaired. It had also been to 'the bottom'

at least twice that he knew of, but not caused by Osmosis though.

[rightsaidfred]

For me its a no brainer, if you are buying in the bargain basement then fair enough a survey isn`t likely to help, once you move up the scale then there are enough hidden areas that won`t show up without a survey or full inspection if you are capable enough, it doesn't take much of a fault to make the cost of a survey recoverable by either having the fault corrected or negotiating a suitable reduction and could save on a large unexpected expense, also with woodies and older GRP boats many insurance companies insist on a survey report.

Fred 

[JanetAnne]

Checking for osmosis is part of the survey for all craft - even woodies. Otherwise there would be no point in going to all the trouble of fibreglass sheathing dodgy hulls....  

[Smoggy]

I wonder how often osmosis is caused by water inside rather than from outside, there's more chance of having exposed fibres to wick on the inside and some bilges are constanly awash, no point in standing on the hard to dry if the bilge is still full.

[Vaughan]

You are quite right Smoggy.

They reckon there are about 7 different types of osmosis and probably more often than not, it gets in from inside the boat. Have you noticed how it often tends to gather around the keel and the lower bottom of the boat? A clear sign that it is coming from the bilge water.

I am not a qualified laminator and I have never laid up a hull but I am pretty good with damage repairs! It's just my opinion as a layman, but I believe most osmosis problems originate in the laying up of the hull. If not enough resin has been used and the matt has not been properly soaked in it, this will leave little dry areas which will later attract water.

But I still say don't worry about it. When the first boat falls in half because of osmosis, maybe we will start to take notice. But it hasn't happened yet!

[Jovril]

Many thanks all for your comments etc.

it certainly makes us feel better than no one seems to believe that whilst a problem not one that means the deal cannot be done.

Must say that we are not great believers of the world of on line “social media” and we are not on any of the Facebook, Twitter or forums in general.

It even took soomtime of looking before joining here, but we have found it to be both friendly and extremely knowledgeable in answering what must seem to many of you stupid questions.

So a very big thank you to you all and we will let you know in due course the outcome of our journey to become a “Boater on the Norfolk Broads”

John

[Smoggy]

No question is stupid if you don't know the answer, to act without asking the question can be pretty stupid, and some of the answers can be really stupid but most will be somewhere near useful.

[Bound2Please]

I will say it again John, no such thing as a stupid question

Regards

Charlie

 

[MauriceMynah]

What's the difference between a duck?

[Smoggy]

14 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

What's the difference between a duck?

The quack!