A Warm Welcome...maybe

[Cheesey69]

Hi all,

First of all, not a moan. I just can't. Still got that glow from being part of the picture but..

I was taught never to turn off the engine until your fully moored.

So, a nice cruise down to Potter ( caring about diesel usage for the first time) figuring that the massed ranks would use the BA moorings so i decided to stop in the first set of quiet moorings.

All good. Pulled up at the end, The Enemy jumps out with the lines and I note that there are no mooring posts so i get the ronds. (spelling?) and jump out to join her.

I take the lines, she jumps back on board and i start setting out the mooring. No sooner I start I hear a whistling from the opposite bank, ignoring this I set the bow rope.

Mrs Cheesey then draws my attention to a geezer on the other bank waving and making cutting actions across his throat and shouting "Engine"

I saw the sign on the bank and I was fully aware of my responsibilities but I was not moored properly and I'd only been stopped less than five minutes.

But the mrs complied  to keep the peace leaving me pondering.

Next time do I ignore him and finish the job?

Stop the engine as soon as?

Tell him come and have a go if he thinks his hard enough?

or my favorite, just go around in circles in front of his shack until he goes mad.

over to you.  

[ExSurveyor]

I would never cut the engine until the boat was secure and I would pretend i couldn't see or hear the fella, that would wind him up more

[Meantime]

Personally I'd skip the last two. Those moorings are provided by the residents of the properties along there and I would comply as much as possible, however I would ensure my boat was safely moored before turning the engine off, but wouldn't do anything to antagonise anyone after that.

A fine line needs to be trod so that the moorings are not lost for all to use, whilst remaining responsible and tolerant towards those who provide them.

Having said all that it should be remembered that there is little currant there, although the wind can be a pain. I would be tempted to set a couple of rhond anchors quickly and tie off, then cut the engine and then fine tune the mooring after that. 

[grendel]

if i am mooring as a solo the engine will be in neutral until i have finished mooring the boat, you are the skipper, you turn the engine off when you consider it safe to do so, its not the business of anyone else. no matter whether quiet moorings or not, almost tempts me to moor there now, as a solo i would need to hold the boat, set the rhond anchors and tie the ropes to them, all before i reboard the boat to switch off, if he wants it done quicker, he can come across and help.

[Meantime]

Just now, grendel said:

if i am mooring as a solo the engine will be in neutral until i have finished mooring the boat, you are the skipper, you turn the engine off when you consider it safe to do so, its not the business of anyone else. no matter whether quiet moorings or not, almost tempts me to moor there now, as a solo i would need to hold the boat, set the rhond anchors and tie the ropes to them, all before i reboard the boat to switch off, if he wants it done quicker, he can come across and help.

Please please remember that the quiet mooring are not public or BA property. They are provided as a goodwill gesture by the residents of the properties along there. By all means moor safely, but abuse or go out of your way to annoy and they won't be free or quiet for long.

I like using those mooring, so please everyone respect the people who own them, and make them available to us.

Your BA toll, or hire fee does not pay a penny towards those moorings. Respect them or lose them. Helming solo is no excuse to prolong a noise nuisance beyond mooring safely.

Frankly I'm more than a little appalled at the attitude shown here. 

I suspect Expilot might have a little rant if he sees this!

[Smoggy]

5 mins sounds a long time to get tied up, that's what wound him up I guess.

Once stopped I want to be in the pub within 2 minutes.....

[SwanR]

Nobody has said who the person was or appeared to be. But on the face of it he or she was being rather impatient. And I never like it when anyone thinking they are being helpful tells me to turn off the engine until I’m good and ready. 

[dnks34]

I will never understand people who want a property by a river clearly populated with many many boats then complain about them.  At least let folk get moored up before arms start getting thrown in the air, 5 minutes might seem a long time but not everyone is an expert and rhond anchors are a pain to get right if your not used to using them.

Its as bad as those who buy property near an airport then start moaning about the planes! 

[CambridgeCabby]

I must support EastCoastIPA here , the important thing here is that the moorings are provided as a goodwill gesture toward boaters at no cost to those whom benefit from using them .

By some admittedly maybe tongue in cheek responses to this thread it appears the goodwill isn’t reciprocal.

By all means run the engine until you have your lines secured ashore , but try to ensure this is in a timely fashion and any fine adjustments can be carried out afterwards.

[grendel]

21 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Helming solo is no excuse to prolong a noise nuisance beyond mooring safely.

Where did I ever say I would unnecessarily prolong my mooring, I just said I would not be able to switch the engine off while I was busy setting the mooring ropes and rhond anchors, and that to expect me to would be unreasonable as I only have one pair of hands, I certainly would not switch off until the boat was safe.

[grendel]

24 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Frankly I'm more than a little appalled at the attitude shown here. 

what attitude, I just said I would safely moor the boat before switching off. the only place i was a little bit naughty was in saying i might consider mooring there myself, as its a potter heigham, I would normally be considering picking up a marthams yard pilot to take me through the bridge, or be heading away at this point having just come under the bridge, generally if i want to stop, I will do it the other side of the bridge.

[floydraser]

How about a friendly wave and "Sorry, having a problem mooring, won't be long".  H. Kissinger 

[YnysMon]

I didn’t see any ‘attitude’. The most important thing is to moor up safely. How can anyone take issue with that? Running engines when on a mooring, well, that’s a different matter. Grrr.

[Cheesey69]

I must admit to starting the engine and letting it warm up to operating temp only because if the engine thermostat fails closed then it’s going to over heat very fast and that could cause very expensive damage. 
on the other hand, if it fails open then the engine never heats up but I can still motor on. 
But I must insist boat safety comes before residents comfort as long as one does not take the mick out of it

[Vaughan]

Technically, an engine must always be started and warmed up before leaving a mooring, because when cold, it could stall when changing gear.  There is also the fact that a diesel engine must not be put under load until it is up to working temperature or this will cause irreversible damage.

Every trial run, on every hire boat, on every yard on the Broads, includes the words "you must start the engine before casting off the mooring lines".  It is also obvious that you do not stop the engine until the boat is properly moored to the bank.

I don't know anything about this particular situation at Potter Heigham but I have often noticed  that there seem to be a lot of people these days who are very quick to start waving their arms about, as soon as they see a boat coming!

 

[MauriceMynah]

6 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Technically, an engine must always be started and warmed up before leaving a mooring, because when cold, it could stall when changing gear.

Although not as experienced as you Vaughan, in over 50 years of boating, I have never witnessed that happening.

8 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

There is also the fact that a diesel engine must not be put under load until it is up to working temperature or this will cause irreversible damage.

How will the novice hirer know when the engine is "up to working temperature"? Most boats these days have buzzers to indicate overheating, not temp gauges.

 

10 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Every trial run, on every hire boat, on every yard on the Broads, includes the words "you must start the engine before casting off the mooring lines".  It is also obvious that you do not stop the engine until the boat is properly moored to the bank.

Completely agree. (I thought I'd better tell you that I agree with at least SOMETHING you put in your post)  :-)

13 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I have often noticed  that there seem to be a lot of people these days who are very quick to start waving their arms about

Yep, I agree with that too.

[Vaughan]

21 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Completely agree. (I thought I'd better tell you that I agree with at least SOMETHING you put in your post)  :-)

You are most condescending this morning John! I hope that means you are recovering well?

Stalling depends on the speed that is set for the tick-over and also for the type of gearbox. A Hurth or a PRM goes into gear with a bit of a thump and stalling can happen if the engine has only just been started.

I don't know many hire boats without a temperature gauge, even these days. A very basic bit of kit.

Diesel engines are compression ignition and this means they run at higher temperatures than petrol. Pistons, when cold, are slightly oval in shape. They only become perfectly round when they are at designed temperature. Same goes for gudgeon pins and many other parts including bearing journals.

Well, you did ask!    

Edited to include : That goes for valve clearances as well!

Edited July 21, 2020 by Vaughan
line added

[Meantime]

54 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I don't know anything about this particular situation at Potter Heigham but I have often noticed  that there seem to be a lot of people these days who are very quick to start waving their arms about, as soon as they see a boat coming!

 

I'm sure if and when Expilot sees this topic he will give chapter and verse, but my understanding is as follows.

There are two moorings on the Starboard bank as you head into Potter that are owned by the TBMC. They are 24hr free moorings and designated as quiet moorings. No running of engines or any other noise. Their piece of land, their rules as far as I see it. They are provided for anybody to moor to, providing they can abide by the rules. If those rules are persistently broken then that right to moor could very easily be removed from what are two very nice and generally peaceful moorings.

TBMC Thurne Bungalows Management Company is a company setup to represent the owners of the bungalows along the banks and also takes care of such things as maintaining those two pieces of land, cutting the grass etc, as well as the rubbish collection for the bungalows. Each person who buys a property along there gets one share in the company and pays an annual maintenance charge to the company for the collective services and maintenance that all property owners benefit from.

So ultimately anyone who owns a property along there is also a part owner of those two moorings, and also pays for the upkeep of those two moorings and probably feels quite justified in asking people to respect the terms of those two moorings. Granted there are ways of getting the message across and I believe that one or two can be over zealous in asking people to be quiet, however I guess patience can run a bit thin after a day of people turning up and feeling it is their right to ignore any signs and do as they please. That is not aimed at anybody on this thread, but we know so many people these days feel that signs do not apply to them. I can see it being particularly galling if you have contributed towards something, only to have your peace and quiet shattered all day long.

Please please respect those moorings or we all lose out. Please respect the neighbours and perhaps put yourself in their shoes before considering to do everything by the rule book when it comes to procedures when mooring up there. Trust me it is no where near as tidal as Reedham. One mooring rope on a rhond anchor and someone holding another should be safe enough for you to switch your engine off whilst you then sort your ropes out fully.  

[Chelsea14Ian]

I always start the engine and let it run for at least  two minutes. Also as we are duel steer,if as most often I steer from on top,I give a short forward movement. Some years back,I didn't  do that and unfortunately when I set off after stopping at Brooms  for fuel,we moved forward because  steering was switched by mistake to the lower deck.Since then I always check before we set off.

As for locals,I always try to keep disturbances to a minimum. However some locals will never be happy whatever you do.

[Hylander]

Quite frankly I think the resident should find something to do.    It was obviously a man,   retired,   I've got one in doors as well and notices everything that goes on.   I personally could not give a stuff.      When the guy at Potter  purchased his property he knew darn well it was opposite the moorings and what they entailed as far as he was concerned.   However, if you allow Jo Public to use them for God sake they have to 'use them'.    A novice on the river will take a bit more time may be than some but to start screeching across the river when they have just arrived is unforgivable and such bad manners.     Who does he think he is.    If he is perfect then I would like to shake his hand.    I would have thought that quiet moorings meant just that,   When you are safely moored , no music etc and general racket.   Hopefully no domestics either.

 

Rant over......     

[rightsaidfred]

18 minutes ago, Hylander said:

Quite frankly I think the resident should find something to do.    It was obviously a man,   retired,   I've got one in doors as well and notices everything that goes on.   I personally could not give a stuff.      When the guy at Potter  purchased his property he knew darn well it was opposite the moorings and what they entailed as far as he was concerned.   However, if you allow Jo Public to use them for God sake they have to 'use them'.    A novice on the river will take a bit more time may be than some but to start screeching across the river when they have just arrived is unforgivable and such bad manners.     Who does he think he is.    If he is perfect then I would like to shake his hand.    I would have thought that quiet moorings meant just that,   When you are safely moored , no music etc and general racket.   Hopefully no domestics either.

 

Rant over......     

Someone got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning .

Sorry but if someone is good and generous enough to allow you access to their property or facilities then it is only right you respect them and what ever conditions they ask you to abide by.

Yes you should always start your engine before moving off and moor up securely before switching off neither of these need more than a couple of minuets or so.

We also like those moorings and would hate to see them lost, while most people do respect them I have seen some who leave their engines  running for some time after mooring up and can fully understand that this could upset and offend residents.

As with everything in life a concession is just that and should be respected as such, if you feel you are unable to comply with simple requests then maybe you should look elsewhere.

Fred 

[expilot]

Thank you ECIPA.  An excellent summary of the situation at these moorings. 

Problems at our mooring plots are always related to perception of reality.  In this instance when the gentleman concerned raised his point, he probably did so because he perceived that you appeared to him to be taking more time than he considered necessary to moor the boat.  As ECIPA states, he co-owns the plots and he shares the not inconsiderable costs of keeping them neatly and safely maintained and fully insured.  His benefit in return?  None.

Then you come to the perception of what may be a novice boat hirer or owner who is struggling to moor and is therefore stressed beyond belief.  His/her perception of his/her most recent critic is, let's be generous here, modified somewhat by the stressful situation in which he/she now finds him/herself.

Neither individual is in the best frame of mind to make gentlemanly conversation.

I have been at fault many times on the river over the past five decades, and been at fault many times in my professional career on the river, but I have always done my best to remember that manners maketh man.  

Thank you, again, ECIPA

David Sanford

Managing Agent

Thurne Bungalows Management Company Limited

[Hylander]

Well said - live and let live.     Be kind if possible to one another.

[MauriceMynah]

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

(I thought I'd better tell you that I agree with at least SOMETHING you put in your post)  :-)

 

57 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

You are most condescending this morning John! I hope that means you are recovering well?

Tongue in cheek rather than condescending, hence the smiley, but yes, I'm feeling pretty much back to my superior self thank you. 

[vanessan]

17 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Yes you should always start your engine before moving off and moor up securely before switching off neither of these need more than a couple of minuets or so.

Spot on Fred. (But I’m not too sure about the dancing bit!)