Running Engines, Of Sorts

[Victoryv]

I know we all get disgruntled when inconsiderate boats run their engines ,but what about generators? We found a nice quite mooring just the three boats, half an hour after we arrived one fired up a generator, has now been running 4 hours. Is it me?

[Victoryv]

I think they must read this forum, turned it off five minutes after I posted 

[PaulN]

In my book, generators are engines, what we need is more shore power available particularly on the B.A. 24 hour free moorings. Boats now are more power hungry, with immersion heaters, microwaves, hair driers etc. Also stable power is required for TV's, laptops, phone chargers etc.

Many hire cruisers now are provided with shore power connecting cables, but what do we have:

Acle bridge has just had power pillars installed, but only near the bridge. Why weren't these installed the length of the moorings, when they were very recently refurbished.

Womack. No power. I know these are parish owned, but I'm sure the parish wouldn't mind if the B.A installed such a facility free of charge. Power is available to connect to nearby.

Horning staithe: Only half the few moorings are within most boats reach for power.  

Hoveton Viaduct with the B.A. tourist office next to it. Why isn't power available all the way along.

Burgh Castle moorings being refurbished by B.A.. No sign of any power being installed, yet buildings with power are close hence a nearby main.

The list can go on and on. Shore power is  requirement of the immediate future. Come on B.A., hurry and address this problem

Looking forward to reading forum members views on this and our 21st century needs. We need quite moorings and engines running for hours drive me mad.

 

  

[JanetAnne]

With the unstoppable move towards electric propulsion (remember that once we stop producing diesel cars we also stop producing car derived diesel power units for marinisation) I would have thought electrification of every mooring spot on the broads was now a necessity.

[JanetAnne]

38 minutes ago, Victoryv said:

 Is it me?

Oh yes!

[Victoryv]

I think they must read this forum, turned it off five minutes after I posted 

[Victoryv]

I have every right to moan, I am a man of a certain age!

[marshman]

Have you costed your wish list? There are so many moorings a long long way from the nearest power source and so it should be!!!

The BA should be encouraging yards to make the boats self sufficient, NOT the other way round. Either that or put up the tolls for those boats that need that facility - shore power should NOT be a requirement unless the yards want to pay more in the way of tolls.

It is easily possible to build boats not to need to hook up - encourage that, not vice versa!!!!

[Oddfellow]

I love the idea that many generators are classed as "silent"......

I am not certain in which language that "silent" translates into "noisy as ***k" :-)

 

[Victoryv]

I have a silent generator, it is anything but!

I have an easy start lawnmower, it isn’t!

don’t get me started on tangerines, easy peelers? Rarely!

I get wound up easily!

[Cheesey69]

Lack of information for the hirer. 
Many companies make battery monitors to tell you the status of your battery bank and more importantly, how long until it’s discharged in hours. 
mines made by NASA and it tells me the charge rate, discharge rate and how many hours left. 
Next year I’m putting in solar panels enough to run the fridge. 
Running the engine for hot water is a new one one me 

[rightsaidfred]

1 hour ago, PaulN said:

In my book, generators are engines, what we need is more shore power available particularly on the B.A. 24 hour free moorings. Boats now are more power hungry, with immersion heaters, microwaves, hair driers etc. Also stable power is required for TV's, laptops, phone chargers etc.

Many hire cruisers now are provided with shore power connecting cables, but what do we have:

Acle bridge has just had power pillars installed, but only near the bridge. Why weren't these installed the length of the moorings, when they were very recently refurbished.

Womack. No power. I know these are parish owned, but I'm sure the parish wouldn't mind if the B.A installed such a facility free of charge. Power is available to connect to nearby.

Horning staithe: Only half the few moorings are within most boats reach for power.  

Hoveton Viaduct with the B.A. tourist office next to it. Why isn't power available all the way along.

Burgh Castle moorings being refurbished by B.A.. No sign of any power being installed, yet buildings with power are close hence a nearby main.

The list can go on and on. Shore power is  requirement of the immediate future. Come on B.A., hurry and address this problem

Looking forward to reading forum members views on this and our 21st century needs. We need quite moorings and engines running for hours drive me mad.

 

  

Sorry but I think like to many people you have lost sight of reality when it comes to the Broads and what they provide, it is mostly a remote area where the provision of electric posts on many of the moorings is either impractical or far to costly, most toll payers moan every year about the increase to sustain what we have now, no way will they pay what would be required to provide half of what you suggest, the broads are what they have always been boating wise a holiday resort not some sort of sanctury or private playground for the few, I am not excusing bad or inconsiderate behaviour just the need to accept  that nothing or nowhere is perfect including the broads and we all need to temper our expectations accordingly.

Fred

[grendel]

you also need to investigate the spare capacity on any local power supply, as each charging post effectively uses the same as a single house, so running 10 new charging posts may be beyond the capacity of the local electricity supply. similarly adding electric vehicle charging to every household has the same issue.

[RS2021]

13 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

it is mostly a remote area where the provision of electric posts on many of the moorings is either impractical or far to costly

The Broads traditionally had a lot of wind powered drainage pumps in lots of remote locations. Over the years these have fallen into disrepair to be replaced by electric pumps. These all have supplies, so I suspect the provision of power to many remote locations may be easier than most assume.

[Ray]

It would be great if modern wind energy production could be harnessed within traditional wind pump looking structures for broads use.

I realise there would be many obstacles including having enough consistent wind and power storage. Probably will never be practical but it's a nice idea.

[RS2021]

6 minutes ago, Ray said:

It would be great if modern wind energy production could be harnessed within traditional wind pump looking structures for broads use.

You'll be suggesting wind powered boats next...

[Victoryv]

Yachtists will be along soon to say I told you so !

[Ray]

It would never catch on.... 😁

[grendel]

8 hours ago, RS2021 said:

The Broads traditionally had a lot of wind powered drainage pumps in lots of remote locations. Over the years these have fallen into disrepair to be replaced by electric pumps. These all have supplies, so I suspect the provision of power to many remote locations may be easier than most assume.

Actually you are both right and wrong here, the cables and trasformers for these pumping stations are tailored for the needed supply and are at the end of long cables (or overhead lines)so there isnt much spare capacity, take Berney Arms. this is stuck at the end of a 3km+ spur and the cable capacity is pretty much maxed out when you consider the pumps and properties at the end of the line, at Hardley cross there is a supply just a few hundred metres away, but the wrong side of the river chet, at each of these locations new cables and new substations would be required, just to buy a standard transformer nowadays we are into the tens of thousands, long cable routes can get into hundreds of thousands, and then we have to ask what is the return on the investment?

those two examples are just the ones I have looked at, crossing rivers with cables is also an expensive operation and you would need to get heavy machinery to the bank at the location needed. you cant just stick a overhead cable in because of yachts.

Pumping stations are also pretty unfriendly electrical neighbours, they can cause voltage fluctuation and spikes on startup,which doent make for a healthy supply to adjacent properties (or charging posts)

[RS2021]

46 minutes ago, grendel said:

Pumping stations are also pretty unfriendly electrical neighbours, they can cause voltage fluctuation and spikes on startup,which doent make for a healthy supply to adjacent properties (or charging posts)

This is a double edge sword. Because of this any supply designed correctly will be 'oversized' to avoid these issues, so by definition will have plenty of spare capacity. However, I know from experience that in rural locations networks evolve and are not always up to standard. The good news is that if they are not it is the responsibility of the Network Operator to upgrade them to standard, so the cost would not fall on boaters if this were the case.

50 minutes ago, grendel said:

crossing rivers with cables is also an expensive operation

Yes this is an obstacle, plenty of capacity, but on the wrong side of the river. An opportunity for new, much needed moorings in beautiful remote locations?

51 minutes ago, grendel said:

we have to ask what is the return on the investment?

The six million dollar question. I have always believed that when the economics finally stack up electric cars/boats will happen and it will then happen quickly. We are moving slowly in that direction, but something will change to make it happen quicker and I think that will be soon.

9 hours ago, Ray said:

It would be great if modern wind energy production could be harnessed within traditional wind pump looking structures for broads use.

I really like this idea.

[eddybear]

9 hours ago, RS2021 said:

You'll be suggesting wind powered boats next...

Yes we could call them sail boats

[Cal]

12 hours ago, PaulN said:

In my book, generators are engines, what we need is more shore power available particularly on the B.A. 24 hour free moorings. Boats now are more power hungry, with immersion heaters, microwaves, hair driers etc. Also stable power is required for TV's, laptops, phone chargers etc.

Many hire cruisers now are provided with shore power connecting cables, but what do we have:

Acle bridge has just had power pillars installed, but only near the bridge. Why weren't these installed the length of the moorings, when they were very recently refurbished.

Womack. No power. I know these are parish owned, but I'm sure the parish wouldn't mind if the B.A installed such a facility free of charge. Power is available to connect to nearby.

Horning staithe: Only half the few moorings are within most boats reach for power.  

Hoveton Viaduct with the B.A. tourist office next to it. Why isn't power available all the way along.

Burgh Castle moorings being refurbished by B.A.. No sign of any power being installed, yet buildings with power are close hence a nearby main.

The list can go on and on. Shore power is  requirement of the immediate future. Come on B.A., hurry and address this problem

Looking forward to reading forum members views on this and our 21st century needs. We need quite moorings and engines running for hours drive me mad.

 

  

Surely the answer is to make boats self sufficient rather than relying on shore power?

We could be out for weeks at a time when we had our cruiser and it never needed to be plugged in or run the engine when moored up and it had all of the 21st century mod cons required. The battery bank was sized to suit the power demands of the boat.

If that can be achieved on a small boat there is no reason it can't be replicated on a larger boat.

The answer isn't more electric posts, it is boats that are designed and set up properly.

[Ray]

There is a trend toward promoting all holidays as being "luxury" with many newer craft seemingly trying to capture an image of one of the Super Yacht class seen in photos of the south of France.

A Broads holiday used to feel a bit like camping.. wild moorings, learning to handle a boat, people helping each other out and just 'making do' in the fresh air.... whatever the weather, it was about an experience or even an adventure.

That's why we fell in love with Broads, just having an adventure far removed from everyday life as we knew it. A proper holiday where you had fun!

[TheQ]

9 hours ago, Victoryv said:

Yachtists will be along soon to say I told you so !

I told you so..

 

 

As it is my Motorboat is Diesel -Electric, It has an electric motor powered by batteries which can be charged up by the generator and solar. Once I've finished it will also take shore power. But the system will also be needed for the microwave, kettle etc..

The quiet pack Generator produces a noise level of 54 dbA which according to a comparative web site is equivalent to a quiet conversation at home, just above bird song and below air-conditioning at 100ft..

As it is once I've finished there will be additional sound proofing fitted round engine bay, spare stuff left over from a jet engine test bay.. good stuff that..

There is also an extra exhaust silencer in very quiet addition to the output from the  generator.

Hopefully you won't be hearing from to boat..

[Vaughan]

Interesting discussion, which has been covered a few times, on the forum!

On a modern boat with all the "goodies" - let's leave out the microwave for a moment - shore power is not necessary if you are cruising for 4 hours or more a day.  Unfortunately a day's cruise on the Northern Broads is normally shorter than this.  Even a run from Acle to Yarmouth is less than 2 hours.  Hence the need to top up the batteries by running on the moorings. 

There has always been a trend on boatyards, to fit new gadgets to attract customers from other yards.  It used to be "look at us - we have fitted fridges!" or "look at us - we have fitted showers!".  this ends up with everyone trying to "keep up with the Jones's" and can be very expensive for a small operation. When electric fridges first appeared in the 60s, boats didn't even have domestic batteries.  A charge splitter was a totally new gadget!

I have always believed that motor cruisers should be autonomous.  Able to moor anywhere out in the country without needing to plug into the bank.  That, surely, is the whole point of a Broads cruise?  You don't want to have to spend every night in a boatyard basin, plugged into the workshops!

There is another unavoidable piece of logistics, with electric powered boats.  If a yard is operating 10 boats, then every major location on the Broads will have to have 10 charging points, as they might all want to spend the night in the same place at the same time!  There was a very expensive experiment with electric boats on the Canal du Midi a while back and the lack of charging points was what killed it, after only one season.