Too Sensible By Half

[MauriceMynah]

17 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

edited to add : 4MPH is known as a brisk walking pace.  So if you are going down the Ant and get overtaken by someone walking their dog on the rhond, you are going too slowly!

Sorry Vaughan, I have to disagree with that. As I have often heard about road speed limits, the limit is just that, a limit, not a target. If I am doing 3 in a 4 limit, I am doing the speed I wish to do. As long as I'm holding nobody up, it is perfectly acceptable.  If I AM holding people up then at worst I'm being selfish, and should go to one side to let other craft pass.

At no point will I accept that I'm going too slowly.

[Smoggy]

9 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

This causes the moored boats to move backwards and forwards rather than up and down.

Using springs when you moor up will sort that.

[Vaughan]

40 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Using springs when you moor up will sort that.

Seamanship, you mean?

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, Meantime said:

At the risk of stating the obvious, why should I, that's the hire yards job to teach the hirers to be respectful of the boat they've hired and other peoples property.

I should have known, that would be your response.  When in doubt, blame it all on the boatyards and their "casual" lack of tuition.

I have spent - almost literally - my life, (first as an instructor and then as an instructor of instructors)  in learning, operating, appraising and refining, the best methods possible for teaching complete novices how to tackle a "hands on" skill which, in fact, takes years of experience, so that they can safely and happily go out on a week's holiday on a river hire boat.

I have learned in this time that there is only so much that you can expect them to "take in" in the short time available.

Frankly - and sincerely - I don't think we on the boatyards have done a bad job, over the last 100 years or so.

But there will always be those, from their river-bank perspective, who can take pleasure in accusing us of needing to do better.

I repeat : try doing a "trial run" to first time hirers yourself one day, and see how you get on.

[CambridgeCabby]

This morning whilst travelling downstream on the Ant we encountered two boats speeding excessively , both of which were private boats .

The majority of hire boats we have had dealings with over many years have been respectful of the speed limits and to the Broads in general , that is why those that do behave in an improper fashion stand out so much .

 

[Mouldy]

2 minutes ago, CambridgeCabby said:

This morning whilst travelling downstream on the Ant we encountered two boats speeding excessively , both of which were private boats .

The majority of hire boats we have had dealings with over many years have been respectful of the speed limits and to the Broads in general , that is why those that do behave in an improper fashion stand out so much .

 

Must be quiet for no mad dash back up The Ant to Richardson’s on a Saturday morning.  When we were on Moonlight Shadow back in April, we spent our first night (Friday) at St Benet’s moorings.  We were passed by plenty of Richo’s Fleet, doing well aver the speed limit between about 07:00 and 09:00.

[annv]

A speed limit is what it says THE MAX SPEED OVER THE GROUND you can go as slow as you like there are no min speeds on the broads. John

[grendel]

I was once proceeding up the ant at what I thought was a steady 4 mph, and it seemed very slow, also there was a big flotilla of boats queued up behind me- it was at that point I realised that my speed app had somehow defaulted to km/hr not mph.

[kpnut]

2 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

 

This morning whilst travelling downstream on the Ant we encountered two boats speeding excessively , both of which were private boats .

 

 

Funnily enough Simon, I said something very similar to myself during the week. Not a good example to hirers. 

[MargeandParge]

We look at dead ended dykes as a piston ie the boat going up  a cylinder and if you are going fast enough to push a bow wave it will come back when it reaches the dead end. Thus explaining the forward and Backwards  motion at Any height of the tide.

As we always do if I can walk that fast it's 3 and if anyone else including Ole Marge can it's 4 mph over ground or water.

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[Gracie]

 I have to say that each time I have hired the handover and tuition have been first class. Any questions are answered and in my experience you don't have to be on your way until you are completely happy. It's not the hire company's fault if some just don't listen ignoring speed limits and everything else in the handover and boat manual. There's always going to be some that will do as they please without thought or concern for the boat they have hired or other river users

I'd also just like to say in regards to setting a good example to hirers, some hirers have been hiring boats longer than some people have owned one. That's not a dig at anyone whether boat owner or hirer, I am a huge fan of both camps  x

[TheFriendlyGopher]

I have recently sold my boat and so I am between the money pits currently and so have booked a boat for August with one of the hire yards.

One of the things I have missed having been a privateer is the whole handover and learning how each different boat has it's own individual handling and layout characteristics. I am quite looking forward to my hire boat once again, although I shall endevour to be as careful and professional as I can be within my capabilities, whether in my own boat or somebody else's

I have never had any issue with the handover that I have received, right back feom beimg a complete newbie that had never even been aboard a boat to now where I am somewhat more experienced, but still not at the level of such experienced and knowledgeable boat handlers as Vaughan and such other members

[kpnut]

I fully agree about the handover Gracie. I’ve never had one where I feel shortchanged. It was always thorough and the first time, we were asked who would be helming. We replied both. But at the handover I was too lacking in confidence to volunteer to try in front of the yard lad. He insisted we had another little trip out with me doing it, just so I could find out if I had any questions. It was fairly low season so they weren’t particularly busy. I was very grateful for that.

I think it’s what you make of it. You can read and hear all about good practice but if you don’t actually listen, you’ll go on oblivious and not realise the trail of mayhem you might be leaving behind you. It should be a matter of pride in a good job done, regardless if a hire boat or your own. 

[SwanR]

Sadly I have personal knowledge of someone who has only had two hires, both from different yards and both with poor handovers IMHO. The first didn’t let either member of the party try mooring up. Only let them have a brief go at the helm and then insisted on stern mooring the boat back at the yard himself. The second was with a different yard so they asked to do a side on mooring while on their trial run. The answer was no, you’ve got bow thrusters so you’ll be fine. I was so disappointed by this but have resisted naming either yard here ..  you might be very surprised if I did. 

[MargeandParge]

One time me and Ole Marge with our two girls hired San Christian 2 a Bermuda and the really nice guy that did our trial run with all of us on board said " you love this and I have half an hour before my next handover would you like some extra tips on mooring" yes please was our reply he was amazing and Ole Parge is sure that one day it will sink in and I'll use that knowledge. 

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[TheFriendlyGopher]

7 minutes ago, SwanR said:

Sadly I have personal knowledge of someone who has only had two hires, both from different yards and both with poor handovers IMHO. The first didn’t let either member of the party try mooring up. Only let them have a brief go at the helm and then insisted on stern mooring the boat back at the yard himself. The second was with a different yard so they asked to do a side on mooring while on their trial run. The answer was no, you’ve got bow thrusters so you’ll be fine. I was so disappointed by this but have resisted naming either yard here ..  you might be very surprised if I did. 

That does sound very disappointing, especially as they specifically asked for instruction. I hope they managed to enjoy their holidays stress free regardless

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, Gracie said:

I'd also just like to say in regards to setting a good example to hirers, some hirers have been hiring boats longer than some people have owned one. That's not a dig at anyone whether boat owner or hirer, I am a huge fan of both camps  x

That’s very true Gracie.  I’ve been hiring in my own name since 1974, but only joined a syndicate five years ago and an owner four years ago.  I always treated a hireboat as if it was my own, always trying to return it in a better state than when I took it out.

Weve spent a good few Saturday afternoons at Pyes Mill and I have to say that Pacific look to give very thorough handovers, including side on and stern on mooring and from our experience when hiring, Summercraft we’re also very thorough.  Thinking back, Gales at Chedgrave and Russell Marine were excellent too.  All were, or are family run yards, so I do wonder if that is the difference.

[PaulN]

Going back to Sutton Staithe where this post seemed to have started, this is now also another so called 'Free 24 Hour BA Mooring' lost to us. Having been there twice this year and immediately came away again, having found most moorings including all those near the electric posts were occupied by scruffy liveaboards. It seems that those of us who elect to moor in marinas, pay our tolls, insurance, maintenance at say £5k plus p.a. and of course getting pumped out legitimately are being excluded and those we pay (B.A.) do nothing about it.

Look at Norwich, what a disgrace to this Norfolk City. The whole of the Broads seems to be degenerating and I speak as someone who has been coming here for about 70 years (may be a bit more as apparently I was conceived on a Broads holiday based at Potter Heigham).

Well, got that off my chest at last!!!  

[MauriceMynah]

51 minutes ago, PaulN said:

Going back to Sutton Staithe where this post seemed to have started, this is now also another so called 'Free 24 Hour BA Mooring' lost to us. Having been there twice this year and immediately came away again, having found most moorings including all those near the electric posts were occupied by scruffy liveaboards. 

Here I sit, moored on Sutton Green, on my boat in which I live. Forgive me please, I shall take my boat away as soon as I can tomorrow, as it seems to offend.

[bucket]

I can only speak from my own recent experience but having moored 3 times this year on Sutton Staithe green, each time next to what look like live aboard boats, each time I found the owners to be decent and  respectful,  I have experienced far worse conduct from hirers or private owners this year alone......

Ok, the boats looked a bit, well.....past their prime.....but I didn't spend all day looking at them.

Living on a boat all year round wouldn't suit me to be honest but I am fortunate that I have the choice. We all have a lifetime of experience that has led to where we are today.

And decent people are decent people, wherever they live.

 

 

[Bluebell]

Now then, I’ve no problem with “scruffy live aboards”, BUT don’t hog the 24 hour moorings. You have to keep moving, that’s just the way it is…😎

[kpnut]

59 minutes ago, Bluebell said:

Now then, I’ve no problem with “scruffy live aboards”, BUT don’t hog the 24 hour moorings. You have to keep moving, that’s just the way it is…😎

That’s exactly how I feel Jim. Same for everyone. Follow the rules, respect the communal space. 

[Smoggy]

4 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Here I sit, moored on Sutton Green, on my boat in which I live. Forgive me please, I shall take my boat away as soon as I can tomorrow, as it seems to offend.

I don't think you are one of the problem boats MM, I think the references are to ones that just stay there for long periods without a paid mooring just milking the rest of us.

[MauriceMynah]

OK, we know that the winter period is a different matter but in the busy season these people cannot just disappear.  

I suspect that one issue is that people underestimate the number of liveaboards there are. 

The perception is that it's just a few boats hogging the mooring. It isn't. There are a few well known ones but I would estimate that the river Ant alone has in excess of 30 liveaboard craft. All taking turns to charge batteries have pumpouts etc. etc. 

The BA would rather we all just go away but offer no assistance by way of creating or allowing others to create residential moorings, in fact they actively block any attempts to get  planning permission for such moorings.

I am lucky, I can afford a base mooring and to eat. Many of my new friends do not have that luxury. Very few of them have regular work, and without bank accounts find getting jobs difficult. You try getting an account without an address! 

I don't want to go all "bleeding hearts" on you but if their boats seem scruffy to you, that appearance may be owing to limited budgets. 

I have often said in the past that I don't want my boat to look like a liveaboard, but just another holiday maker. This is a view held by many of the liveaboads. This is why so few people realise how many of us there are.

Some of you knew Graeme on Calypso swapping daily between Horning and Ranworth. Sadly no longer with us, but the BAs action at Ranworth would have cost him dearly. Many liveaboards are wondering and worrying if charging for 24hr moorings will become the norm. Many will not be able to afford it. Thorpe island has proven how little the BA cares about making feral people homeless. 

Any system has abusers and Sutton Staithe sees some of them, but not as many as some of you think.

[grendel]

I think it must be more difficult to be a continuous cruiser on the broads rather than the canal system, on the canals the requirement is that you need to move every two weeks, which must be easier for that lifestyle, than moving every 24 hours