Tolls (that’s Not A Swear Word!) Amongst Other Things.

[Paladin]

32 minutes ago, marshman said:

Comforting to know if you have transgressed!!!!!!

I think you're missing the point. Notices are being issued to innocent (?) boaters who have correctly tolled their vessels, but the app provided for the rangers' use doesn't reflect that fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The app should only be used as a filter. If it indicates that no toll has been paid, a phone call shoud be made to the Tolls Office to verify that status BEFORE any accusatory notice is issued.

[Islander]

There was nowt wrong with a toll sticker on the bow of the boat. 
 

Colin 

[Paladin]

16 minutes ago, Islander said:

There was nowt wrong with a toll sticker on the bow of the boat. 
 

Colin 

That's another thing they got wrong. Because the printers used the wrong ink on one batch and the ink ran, the BA decided it would be an opportune time to scrap them altogether (despite it being a bye law requirement to display them). So they replaced a fairly foolproof checking system with one that has a built-in obvious major flaw. Sounds about right.

[lurcher]

16 hours ago, Troyboy said:

It is completely unacceptable that a ranger puts a notice on a boat because he is using an inaccurate app for his evidence. And I point the blame at the ranger as much as the BA. The ranger should be ringing the tolls office every time he come across an alleged boat that hasn't been tolled. As that was described by Paladin. It is exactly the same principle as the post masters. They are issuing notices using unreliable software. I'm not making lite of the post office scandal. That is an issue that makes my blood boil. It is incumbent on the ranger to have accurate evidence before he/she issues a notice. Disgraceful. 

 

You point the blame at the ranger?Has he been told to ring the tolls office?

[Paladin]

39 minutes ago, lurcher said:

You point the blame at the ranger?Has he been told to ring the tolls office?

No, the one I spoke to was told to just keep issuing the notices. So not his fault. He, and the other rangers, are just following instructions, which they will have to do if they want to keep their jobs!

[rightsaidfred]

16 minutes ago, Paladin said:

No, the one I spoke to was told to just keep issuing the notices. So not his fault. He, and the other rangers, are just following instructions, which they will have to do if they want to keep their jobs!

While there are genuine exceptions like yourself tolls are due 1st April, Marina checks start in May a month later, if people pay on time then there will be no issue.

Fred

[Bikertov]

2 hours ago, Paladin said:

That's another thing they got wrong. Because the printers used the wrong ink on one batch and the ink ran, the BA decided it would be an opportune time to scrap them altogether (despite it being a bye law requirement to display them). So they replaced a fairly foolproof checking system with one that has a built-in obvious major flaw. Sounds about right.

Do you not get a toll sticker to display then ?

On the Great Ouse, we get sent an email with the toll certificate on it (it prints about 3" square) and have to cut it out and display it on the boat.

At Jones marina where I am, we had the EA enforcement team out last week, checking the boats for up to date certificates. Of course, that becomes a bit of a fail when the river has been closed to navigation for so long, hence a lot of owners haven't even been to the marina in months so haven't been able to put this year's certificate up !

[Mouldy]

6 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

Do you not get a toll sticker to display then ?

On the Great Ouse, we get sent an email with the toll certificate on it (it prints about 3" square) and have to cut it out and display it on the boat.

At Jones marina where I am, we had the EA enforcement team out last week, checking the boats for up to date certificates. Of course, that becomes a bit of a fail when the river has been closed to navigation for so long, hence a lot of owners haven't even been to the marina in months so haven't been able to put this year's certificate up !

Not now.  We used to get a toll sticker, but it probably saves money on printing and postage to not send them and to rely on an online system that isn’t fit for purpose in the 21st century.

[dom]

7 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

Do you not get a toll sticker to display then ?

BA used to provide a tax disc style proof of toll. I don't think it was actually required for it to visible externally - ours used to be on an internal bulkhead.

They used to be quite useful as a means of identifying smaller craft which had come adrift when other marks were missing or not required. Generally, dinghies had a pressed acrylic holder on thwarts.

12 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

Of course, that becomes a bit of a fail when the river has been closed to navigation for so long

Or when the inspector places an enforcement notice on a window directly above a clearly valid license, as has happened at least once this season!

[Bikertov]

19 minutes ago, dom said:

Or when the inspector places an enforcement notice on a window directly above a clearly valid license, as has happened at least once this season!

When they came around Jones the other week, they were told to get lost, on the basis a lot of owners hadn't yet been to update the licence.

The yard then went around to check all the boats, and messaged owners to warn them if they weren't up to date

I got an email - despite having FOUR copies displayed, two on each side of the boat. I let him off, as apparently I was the last of 300 boats checked that day !

[NorfolkNog]

Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere 

 

https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/news/briefing-on-navigation-charges-for-2025-26

[BroadAmbition]

Here we go again - yet another above inflation rise of the Tolls coming down the river

Griff

[grendel]

they highlight that declining boat numbers are one of the causes of their shortfall, one wonders if they have considered that a huge rise in tolls over the past few years and the introduction of mooring charges at certain 'previously free' moorings, certainly hasnt had a good impact on the number of boats, but rather a detrimental one and they are just reaping the rewards that their own policies have brought about. the argument that they need to do dredging must surely fall on deaf ears considering just how shallow the lower bure has got due to its lack.

Another above inflation toll rise will just highlight their financial ineptitude and act as a wake up call for more boaters complaints and more adverse publicity as an outcome. its about time that those on the committees stood up to the pressure placed upon them by the upper management to once more raise the tolls. once more would be a step too far in my opinion.

[Ray]

Sadly I suspect that we all know the eventual outcome of this "consultation"

 

[CambridgeCabby]

Since by their own admission there are less boats on the system I can only assume that as a responsible body they are reducing their staffing levels accordingly if not then they are failing in their public duty .

Another 12.5% increase on tolls would be unacceptable to many and would only result in more boats leaving the system , if when I was in business I had attempted to raise my charges by the percentages the BA has implemented over the last four years my customers would have most certainly gone elsewhere .

Sadly I think Rays prediction is a reality and the so called consultation is more akin to an early rate increase announcement at the proposed rate .

I presume the hidden agenda is for the Broads “National Park” to revert to wetland with no pleasure craft at all ? Otherwise why are they intent on killing their “customers” off and reducing their income gradually year on year .

Where other public sectors are having to reduce costs through cutting staffing , office space and services the BA seem to be awarding themselves (substantially) above inflation budgets and expecting to simply charge the toll payers to cover their mishandling of their current funding .

[RS2021]

This paper is really open to being torn to shreds by anyone inclined to do so. For starters it blames cost of living for the decline and then proposes adding to costs for users. It blames the reduction in boats for the increase in tolls and then says private cruiser numbers after increasing have now returned to pre covid numbers - so just really a correction. If the books ballanced pre covid, then why after a number of inflation plus toll increases is there now a shortfall? It would be interesting to get a forensic accountant to go over the books.

Sadly though I think Ray is right. Is it because there really isn't the desire to take the BA and its leadership on, or is it because if you look elsewhere (CRT) you see the Broads are relatively better financed.

[CeePee1952]

Just had a read of that "paper" and I'm confused! Why is there such a difference (approx £23) in the charges per metre between a hired motor cruiser and a privately owned one? Surely a boat is a boat no matter whether it is a hire craft or private and like for like, will occupy the same amount of water?  I admit we don't own a boat and always hire and my knowledge of what determines the charges is virtually nil but it seems to me that the hire yards as well as private owners are getting ripped off!

Chris

[Bikertov]

I would suggest it is because a hired craft is used probably 5 - 10 times more per annum than a privately owned craft, and for commercial gain ?

[CambridgeCabby]

Having re read the paper , what the BA are conveniently failing to mention is that although the number of hire craft has most certainly decreased over the last few years most of the newer hire craft are much larger than those we have lost and since the tolls are based on a boats square metres  as opposed to simply as a boat then their figures are misleading 

[Brian]

Every year, over inflated Tolls rise, all we can do is lay down and take it.  Like others have said, if i raised my prices the same as the BA my customers would go else where.  BA have us over a barrel - every year. 

[MargeandParge]

The hire and private boating industry is hugely important for Broadland and it's workforce,small business and tourism.  Isn't it time that MPs responsible for this area looked into this unelected Quango (BA) before there is a mess to clean up. When it's gone it's lost along with all the opportunities. 

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[Lulu]

The phrase, don’t bite the hand that feeds springs to mind.   We can’t downsize our boat any further. 

[catcouk]

Hi everyone. I saw this news today on my Twitter feed and knew there would be discussion here. Firstly, I'm not a boat owner am not an authority. Secondly, please don't shoot me for my ignorance, I am genuinely trying to understand.

Along with everyone else here, I have been unimpressed (understatement) with the constant and unreasonable increases in toll charge - I fear the impact on an area of the country I genuinely love. The information today seems to be fairly solid evidence that the worry was justified.

I had (an admittedly) brief look through the information. If I read it correctly, there has been a marginal change in private boat numbers but a significant change in the hire fleet. I think this alone tells a story about the Broads tourism industry.

However,my question is this. If there is a reduction in hire craft, does this actually affect the service we expect from the BA and their navigation duties? Assuming the answer is no, what services can realistically be reduced or staff be laid off? The only other option is to increase the income. This is where I have no knowledge, does the navigation budget come purely from tolls?

The paperwork suggests that the DEFRA money only pays for National Park stuff and the tolls only pay for navigational stuff. Have I missed something.

The situation is dire (and seems to partly be of the BA's making) but I wondered if there was any way to solve this issue or if the writing is already on the wall?

 

Blimey - what a doom and gloom post. Sorry.

[rightsaidfred]

17 minutes ago, catcouk said:

Hi everyone. I saw this news today on my Twitter feed and knew there would be discussion here. Firstly, I'm not a boat owner am not an authority. Secondly, please don't shoot me for my ignorance, I am genuinely trying to understand.

Along with everyone else here, I have been unimpressed (understatement) with the constant and unreasonable increases in toll charge - I fear the impact on an area of the country I genuinely love. The information today seems to be fairly solid evidence that the worry was justified.

I had (an admittedly) brief look through the information. If I read it correctly, there has been a marginal change in private boat numbers but a significant change in the hire fleet. I think this alone tells a story about the Broads tourism industry.

However,my question is this. If there is a reduction in hire craft, does this actually affect the service we expect from the BA and their navigation duties? Assuming the answer is no, what services can realistically be reduced or staff be laid off? The only other option is to increase the income. This is where I have no knowledge, does the navigation budget come purely from tolls?

The paperwork suggests that the DEFRA money only pays for National Park stuff and the tolls only pay for navigational stuff. Have I missed something.

The situation is dire (and seems to partly be of the BA's making) but I wondered if there was any way to solve this issue or if the writing is already on the wall?

 

Blimey - what a doom and gloom post. Sorry.

No the only thing wrong there is that the Broads are not and never will be a  National Park, this alone highlightes the warped attitude of the CEO to the managment of the Area under their control.

Fred

[ExSurveyor]

The reduction in the big income generators is 3 less powered hire boats and 90ish private motor boats.

The 90ish private boats is from a total of nearly 4000 in total, less than 2% reduction.

The other big reductions are in unpowered craft and outboard inflatables.

The ambitions are growing faster than the income, again.

Every other organisation is making cuts, deep cuts but not the BA.