Possible Tidal Surge 21st Dec

[Smoggy]

3 hours ago, marshman said:

Any surge coming down the North Sea is effectively "stopped" to some extent by the Dover Straits which acts like a neck of a bottle

But can be matched by the same surge coming the other way, it all depends where the cause of the surge is.

Tides generally meet somewhere around harwich. 

[marshman]

As the wind causing the surge was NW and associated with Storm Pia, it was obviously a bit of a good thing that it was neaps - it was still more than 1.5 m over predicted levels, neaps or no neaps. Had it been springs, the surge could well have been worse and caused even more problems!

[Cheesey69]

When do these “problems “ become a trend and the trend to the norm?

[rightsaidfred]

55 minutes ago, Cheesey69 said:

When do these “problems “ become a trend and the trend to the norm?

Trends, patterns call them what you like are all part of the planets constant evolution, the weather is affected by many things outside our control whether its the constant minute change in the planets axis, solar flares or the position of the moons orbit.

Despite the current popular protestations  and restrictions this will continue till the Earth reaches  the end of its current cycle, instead of trying to control the climate we need to learn to live with it and adapt because nothing we do will stop the inevitable, if it means relocating away from unsustainable areas then that's what has to be done.

Fred

[marshman]

The Broads have always had saltwater surges and they have always caused problem for fish - hence the barrier at Herbert Woods and the report of dead fish at Upton. This has been exacerbated currently however by the fresh water coming downstream caused by excessive rainfall - with the ground already water logged, further rainfall will not soak away, even on higher ground.

Around where I live it is almost impossible to walk that far along any road before you come up against a large puddle its often impossible to skirt without wellies - exacerbated by the fact the excessively large tractors continue to stray off the road onto the grass verges blocking drains and any gullies. Just up the road nearby, they have only just lifted the last potatoes and today they were doing the sugar beet opposite - quite literally the road was 4/5" deep in liquid mud, although to be fair they did have a sign out "Mud on Road" ! It was almost impossible to drive along and the tractors were struggling in the field with fully loaded trailers -  I do wonder what damage is being done to soil structure by these very heavy machines. I have rarely seen such mud, and this on light soil or old heathlands.

[rightsaidfred]

13 minutes ago, marshman said:

The Broads have always had saltwater surges and they have always caused problem for fish - hence the barrier at Herbert Woods and the report of dead fish at Upton. This has been exacerbated currently however by the fresh water coming downstream caused by excessive rainfall - with the ground already water logged, further rainfall will not soak away, even on higher ground.

Around where I live it is almost impossible to walk that far along any road before you come up against a large puddle its often impossible to skirt without wellies - exacerbated by the fact the excessively large tractors continue to stray off the road onto the grass verges blocking drains and any gullies. Just up the road nearby, they have only just lifted the last potatoes and today they were doing the sugar beet opposite - quite literally the road was 4/5" deep in liquid mud, although to be fair they did have a sign out "Mud on Road" ! It was almost impossible to drive along and the tractors were struggling in the field with fully loaded trailers -  I do wonder what damage is being done to soil structure by these very heavy machines. I have rarely seen such mud, and this on light soil or old heathlands.

That scenario can be seen all across the country in many cases well away from rivers, weather patterns are changing across the world not just the Broads or the Uk. Along with earthquakes and volcanic eruptions many of them unnoticed under the sea. 

Fred  

[Roy]

The last two years the weather’s definitely turned more violent i work out side have done for 20 years and I’ve noticed since 2022 the weathers been more volatile the hot long dry 2022 and all 2023 has been is wet and windy bar 2weeks of heat in June and 3fairly settled weeks from end of august.

2023 has been the year I’ve had mist down days due to the weather just can’t get on as ground too wet ! 
 

one thing I really don’t like us all the winds we keep having. 

[kpnut]

1 hour ago, Roy said:

one thing I really don’t like us all the winds we keep having. 

Working outside, it’s the windy weather I hate the most. So potentially damaging, and nothing goes right or stays put and it puts me in a very grumpy mood. 

[Mouldy]

21 minutes ago, kpnut said:

Working outside, it’s the windy weather I hate the most. So potentially damaging, and nothing goes right or stays put and it puts me in a very grumpy mood. 

Good one, Kate.  I usually put being grumpy down to my age - never connected it to the weather!  I’ll try that one! 

[Roy]

8 hours ago, kpnut said:

Working outside, it’s the windy weather I hate the most. So potentially damaging, and nothing goes right or stays put and it puts me in a very grumpy mood. 

Yes Kate the wind has the same effect on me to glad it’s not just me. 
 

[Wussername]

Stop moaning. Norfolk is windy. Boggy. Floods. Stuck out in the middle of the North Sea like carbuncle. Wherever you live draw a circle, in that circle identify a radius. Within that radius, just a few miles is the sea and it is the sea that determines where we live and the life we live. Has been so for many generations.

Climate change. Climate changes. Now and again people in Norfolk dig up an elephant. They do, an elephant or a woolly  mammoth. A bit of a sabre tooth tiger.  

What caused their demise. Could it have been climate change?

What caused that climate change?

Not my diesel car, not my central heating, my coal fire, my wood burner, my holiday in the Costa Plenty. 

 

[rightsaidfred]

35 minutes ago, Wussername said:

Stop moaning. Norfolk is windy. Boggy. Floods. Stuck out in the middle of the North Sea like carbuncle. Wherever you live draw a circle, in that circle identify a radius. Within that radius, just a few miles is the sea and it is the sea that determines where we live and the life we live. Has been so for many generations.

Climate change. Climate changes. Now and again people in Norfolk dig up an elephant. They do, an elephant or a woolly  mammoth. A bit of a sabre tooth tiger.  

What caused their demise. Could it have been climate change?

What caused that climate change?

Not my diesel car, not my central heating, my coal fire, my wood burner, my holiday in the Costa Plenty. 

 

Evolution!!!

[Smoggy]

49 minutes ago, Wussername said:

What caused their demise.

Could have been old age, nobody finds a wooly mammoth puppy. (how cute would that be?)

[Cheesey69]

4 hours ago, Wussername said:

Stop moaning. Norfolk is windy. Boggy. Floods. Stuck out in the middle of the North Sea like carbuncle. Wherever you live draw a circle, in that circle identify a radius. Within that radius, just a few miles is the sea and it is the sea that determines where we live and the life we live. Has been so for many generations.

Climate change. Climate changes. Now and again people in Norfolk dig up an elephant. They do, an elephant or a woolly  mammoth. A bit of a sabre tooth tiger.  

What caused their demise. Could it have been climate change?

What caused that climate change?

Not my diesel car, not my central heating, my coal fire, my wood burner, my holiday in the Costa Plenty. 

 

True. Not just you but several billion yous just might. 
Climate change don’t care if you believe in it or not

[rightsaidfred]

9 hours ago, Cheesey69 said:

True. Not just you but several billion yous just might. 
Climate change don’t care if you believe in it or not

I think everyone accepts that the climate changes constantly, It's been happening for billions of years and will continue to do so for as long as the sun exists despite our puny efforts.

Fred

Edited December 24, 2023 by rightsaidfred

[webntweb]

4 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

I think everyone accepts that the climate changes constantly, It's been happening for billions of years and will continue to do so for as long as the sun exists despite our puny efforts.

Fred

Perhaps it would be better if us billions didn't keep adding to it.

[SteveO]

On 22/12/2023 at 19:45, grendel said:

I am sure that on top of all the recent flooding certain questions are surely bound to be asked whether the flood alleviation program is working?

I suspect that once the flood alleviation ditches are full of water, they are no further use for flood alleviation and since there is nowhere for the water in those ditches to go, they will stay full. This was either someone's expensive vanity project or another bird sanctuary by stealth and at the taxpayer's expense. 

[Bytheriver]

38 minutes ago, SteveO said:

I suspect that once the flood alleviation ditches are full of water, they are no further use for flood alleviation and since there is nowhere for the water in those ditches to go, they will stay full. This was either someone's expensive vanity project or another bird sanctuary by stealth and at the taxpayer's expense. 

If anyone has time or inclination I am sure you will find the Consultations that went on before the last 20 programme & the Planning Permissions for each "Compartment" & who did or didn't raise concerns?

[YnysMon]

It’s windy again…at least it is on MK. Does that mean the flooding is getting worse? 

[Mouldy]

7 minutes ago, YnysMon said:

It’s windy again…at least it is on MK. Does that mean the flooding is getting worse? 

The Ferry House at Surlingham has posted on FB to say that they are open again, after being closed on Friday due to flooding (the lane and beer garden, so no access).  I think the southern rivers may be fairing a little better than the north.

According to the weather forecast, there are more wet and windy days to come this week, although the wind direction is changing to predominantly southerly on Wednesday and Thursday.

[rightsaidfred]

2 hours ago, webntweb said:

Perhaps it would be better if us billions didn't keep adding to it.

It would help if this country and the rest of the world wasn't over populated but that's a reality most don't  want to face.

Fred

 

 

[Andrewcook]

As Tidal surges appear, around our coastline particularly, it affects Great Yarmouth and around the Broads would it be a good idea to put some sort of a sort of Barrier like we have got the Thames in London to counteract these Tidel Surges?

[grendel]

6 hours ago, Andrewcook said:

As Tidal surges appear, around our coastline particularly, it affects Great Yarmouth and around the Broads would it be a good idea to put some sort of a sort of Barrier like we have got the Thames in London to counteract these Tidel Surges?

not really as while it would hold the tides out, it would also restrict water leaving the system during times of flood even worse than we have already recently seen, and there are concerns that the water would just make its way under the spit of land containing a large portion of Great Yarmouth and wash out under there causing the land to erode into the sea.

[marshman]

Andrew - the trouble with tidal barriers are twofold - or perhaps more! 

Firstly the water will just find another place to go - it won't just disappear! Whilst I appreciate its difficult to think of GY disappearing its hold on the land could be tenuous for the very reason Grendel mentioned. The Thames Barrier was, and is, a major success but at the same time they had to build new, and higher, defences all around in many of the creeks and rivers, just for that reason.

The other problem is that the ebb tides are always flushing silt out of the system and again, that silt would accumulate. Breydon as we recognise it today is a very different place to what it was 200 or more years ago. Before they built GY harbour and dredged the channel, built the walls and altered the bar, Breydon was more similar to a Broad, which is why early books show wildfowlers living on it in houseboats etc. It certainly had more water in it at low tide than just a mere channel as it is today - or so I believe!

Again I suspect it was The Law of Unintended Consequences getting a look in again!!!!

 

[Islander]

Reverse tidal surge this morning. Thorpe river green this morning. We need to see the 5th rung on the ladder to get 8ft under the bridge. Plenty of room today. 

The second picture shows the steps where the flood water was up to the first tread.

This seems to happen every year about this time. Seasonal changes no doubt. 
 

Colin