Speeding

[Bound2Please]

Unfortunately, Neil, there's no other way they can apart from following you. And that's just not possible with the number of speeders about.

Alan has brought up a subject dear to my heart!

 

I have to say that there does seem to be an awful lot more speeding boats than years ago, both private and hire.

 

I too prefer poodle about, but unless a few examples are made both to hire and private boats alike I feel it will just get worse.

 

Charlie

[senator]

Sorry Neil it appears you posted while I was typing but same thing different words

[diesel falcon]

Why the obsession with speed? Speed over ground is irrelevant, only speed through the water has any affect on the banks, small craft and moored boats. Reaction times are hardly tested by 5 or 6 miles an hour, so it is not as if speed kills,  but with water flowing at up to 3 or 4 knots through Reedham Yarmouth and the lower reaches of the Waveney you could be doing up to 8 knots difference going with it downstream to against it upstream at the same speed over ground, 

 

8 knots is one hell of a wash on most boats

 

Why not campaign for speed to be in through the water instead on over ground if you want to make any difference. That way the speed limit is 2000 rpm or whatever it equates to and if you want to get there quicker go when the water is going the same way as you. 

HI, nice to see you posting again, took a while to work out who was waving at us friday!, to give an example , we have to be very careful when motoring against the tide, the speed limit has little influence on the way we go against tide because with a 4 knot tide running our boat simply digs it,s stern in and produces a hugh wash at 6mph, Going with the tide we produce very little wash at 6mph over the ground.

[Hockham Admiral]

Hi John

I know speeding boats can ve a real problem, but things have got worse since the instigation of the new way of measuring it over land. There was a lot less of it before, and now a lot of people are jusyt jumping on the bandwagon, and wanting to say what is the right thing. I`ve been hiring for 45 years, and i`ve never heard of so many so called problems before this stupid system came into being.

I like to slowly chug around and enjoy the slower pace of life afloat just like many on here. But when a hirer is told the figures on the dash panel are what they should be doing on a handover, what else are they to do?.

Lots of new boats do have GPS speedometers, Neil but they don't seem to have much effect.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

I know what you mean John, and to a great extent, i do agree with what a lot of people are saying. However, my biggest gripe is tha stupid system of measuring speed over ground. As Ian (Senator) rightly says, and i related to above, it`s the speed over the surface of the water that is relevant. As we have both said, an offshore sports cruiser could do 4 mph over ground against a hard tide at places like Gt Yarmouth or Reedham, yet be doing in excess of 8mph over the water, and as was said, that`s an awful lot of wash by any boat, which could have catasrophic dangers to people in moored boats.

 

I can resall a tale John Cressy from Maffett Cruiser told me back in the late 70s, when a 42ft hire cruiser came along the Chet past the boatyards at high speed, where there is a 3 mph limit. The wash was so violent, it swirl about in his bay area, causing a moored boat to violently crash and bang about while moored. It was so bad, while a lady on board was cooking at the time, a pan of boiling water got shaken off the stove all over her. She was taken away in an ambulance with severe scalding to her upper body and arms et5c.

 

Now come foward to the present day, and imagine a boat doing possibly 8+ mph over water, yet only 4 mph over land LEGALLY, then causing the same thing to happen.

 

This whole idea of having speed limits over ground is completey stupid, and one i will NEVER be in favour of.

[dnks34]

Whats wrong with just looking behind you and if the froths to frothy and everythings bobbing up and down your going to fast

Reading through this thread has got me thinking, at 1750rpm our boat wont do 6mph thats measuring with the paddle wheel sensor or via GPS, atleast I dont think it will

[LondonRascal]

I've got one of these ...

 

Link to get

 

 

As you can see not very much money but ever so good at getting people's attention!  From giving out some helpful advice to someone to telling an idiot to slow down.

 

What often works a treat is pointing a camera at someone while talking and then giving 'slow down' hand signal.  They have no idea if the camera is on, or if a photo ofr video was taken of their behavior and if it was what you may do with it - put it on line to name and shame or report to the Broads Authority - you get the picture.

 

It is so obvious by the bow wave created, especially in a 4 MPH area when someone is going way over it and while I am sure we have all gone a bit faster sometimes, what amazes me are people who set off at a set speed over the limit and carry on for miles past moored boats, close to banks washing over them and causing a real nuisance and risk. 

 

I know Rangers have a varied work load and are not simply in their launches all of their shift, but devoting some more time to speeding would be welcome.  I don't mean a concerted panned effort for a given date at a set location but just stop by the river spend an hour then move on repeat.

 

Even if this was an hour out of each day in each week with more than just a verbal warning given it would begin to have an effect because you would have no idea when or where they may be come around a bend see the Ranger and bingo they are caught.

[Timbo]

I've got one of these ...

 

Link to get

 

 

As you can see not very much money but ever so good at getting people's attention!  From giving out some helpful advice to someone to telling an idiot to slow down.

 

 Robin...just spat my coffee on the laptop screen!

 

I have one of these...

 

An Uncle Albert!  Anyone who wants one just PM and you can have mine.

 

The Ant seems to be the favourite speeding grounds of the privateers especially in an evening just before the turn to Stalham just before dusk. Uncle Albert enjoys shouting 'slow down' and waving his arms up and down just in case they didn't hear his Petty Officer holler. To be honest its the most exercise he gets these days.

 

After one incident where a privateer was astounded that someone dare tell him off for speeding...his wash had caused Uncle Albert to spill hot tea on himself...I told my daughter of the trick we once played as scouts in our village during an anti car speeding campaign. As venture Sea Scouts we had donned our peaked caps and armed with an old hair dryer which we pointed at passing motorists we managed to get everyone slowed down to 30 mph as they drove through the village. Grabbing her hair dryer Holly tried it on passing boats...the trick still works! For some reason pointing a hair dryer at speeders makes them slow down. It might work even better if you plug it in...wind resistance sort of thing!

[Labrador]

I'm afraid this is a spin-off of the appalling standards of driving on the roads today. So many people ignore the average speed cameras, as figures published in the EDP recently show.

[Hockham Admiral]

How many dB does it push out, Robin, please? (10W doesn't mean much to me).

[johnb]

I come on holiday to relax. I want to go slowly, and I want others to act considerately and to at least keep to the speed limits, less if their speed is likely to cause injury or damage. I have a tendency to shout! However, I really don't want confrontation and upset. I would imagine this is what most people want, so where do we draw the line? At first sight I love the idea of the megaphone, and mean no criticism, but do we really 

want to hear people shouting back and forth at each other-especially if both 'sides' have one? For direct safety matters a megaphone may be useful, but IMHO only at those times. They could become a bit like hooters on cars, used for all sorts of innappropriate matters. OK maybe I am going over the top but sound travels a long way over water. I really don't know the answer,  because it's a matter of self discipline, we have to actually believe within ourselves that the speed limits matter, that speed causes damage to the banks etc., that speed can cause injury to people and animals. Unfortunately many people visiting the Broads do not have this belief within them, therefore they will use their own "judgement". I was recently speaking to a 8yr old boy about something he was doing that was wrong. His reply? "Its Ok. nobody is looking". This is reflected on our roads. Drivers slow down for cameras not for speed limit signs. If you have done-thank you for reading-sorry for being so long winded!

[MauriceMynah]

Hirers or privateers? As someone said earlier, there are angels and demons in both camps.

Firstly I have to say that this is another of those rare occasions where I agree totally with Neil (Speedtriple) and Ian (Senator). I can however see one small logic to the "speed over ground" argument, which is that a novice will find it easier to judge his speed  by looking at the bank and comparing it with walking speed.

 

This of course is more relevant on the northern waters where typically the tidal flow is much lower. Again as has been said it's the speed through water where excessive wash can occur.

 

It follows therefore that the rev counter should be the instrument of choice. Naturally it isn't that simple!

 

If we take Gt.Yarmouth as an example, and on an ebb tide. You are going up stream having just crossed Breydon. You are punching what to me seems like a 3 to 4 mph tide. If you are going to make any reasonable headway your speed over land will be 2mph so your speed through water will be 6 knots/mph and your wash could be considerable.

 

Something I genuinely do not know is "If the wash is travelling slowly (2mph), is the effect on a moored boat the same as if that wash were travelling at 6mph?."

 

I find it difficult to believe it is. My thinking is that if the tide is 4 mph, and your speed through water is 4mph against that tide, you would be stationary in relation to the ground and any moored boat. Would said boat be rocking from your wash? Surely not! so under those conditions, it is your speed over land that causes any danger.

 

SO!!! What do we tell the novice...

 

..."You need to obey all the speed limits all the time. Those limits refer to your speed over land, except if you are fighting a tide, then the limits (over land) are lower because otherwise you'll kick up a hell of a wash. If it's a strong tide then you'll need to go faster through the water but not fast enough to reach the over land speed limit.

If you are going with the tide then you must measure your speed over land unless that is, when the tide is going faster than the speed limit, If that's the case you measure your speed through the water, unless there is a ranger about when you'd better slow down. and that's all there is to it!"

 

So, we know the problem, what's the solution?

[senator]

MM your observations are 100% correct.

 

A wash running with the current at 6mph will actually be less than one against at the same speed as the flow of water will stand up the wash. Exactly the same as wind against tide stands up the sea, go with and the flow of water will smooth the wash out.

 

If you are stationary in the water at 4 mph then yes you will be making a wash equivalent to 4 mph but the wash will also be hitting the bank in exactly the same place, as long as there is no boat in the location you won't rock anyone, if there is then yes you will continue to rock them.

[JawsOrca]

Oh phone signal. Tbh honest we push the limit but I watch the wash and adjust accordingly and we have gps so Im on the limit (but not always) So to see boats overtake us against the current and overtake in seconds they are doing some revs.. so no excuse just selfush negligence. We do have vhf tuned to 12 so the rangers are within reach... we also have the go pro as evidence and if that catches anyone that will be passed over to prosecute. We dont need idiots up here.. if they miss the point of a broads holiday then they can go forth.

[Matt]

The biggest problem with most of the above is that people see speeds differently with the naked eye. Once persons 8mph is another persons 12mph!

[Wildfuzz]

Cant help but add my little bit, I like most on here try to be considerate to other river users, but in my little 20` I have noticed that the hull design can have a big influence on the wash created and also "the need for speed".

 

Some vessels seem to create no wash at all I assume flat bottomed, other however create a good surfing size wave behind even at a very moderate pace. Also some hulls are notoriously difficult to steer at very low speed as they are designed for larger engines, more speed, or coastal use.

 

Now I am not giving anyone a get out clause, but for my little vessel I had to invest in several differing props before finding the one that gave good steering at Broads speeds, some owners would not be aware of, or care about the changes that can be made to make a craft user friendly when in the Broads environment and would go at speeds that give them steering.....

[LondonRascal]

@Hockham Admiral:  as to volume it is not super loud but enough to be heard over the otherside of a river and engine noise.  It is not a ‘professional’ type costing maybe £100.00+ as used at demonstrations or someone selling ‘Socialist Worker’ which bugs the hell out of me in my area!

 

@Johnb: I appreciate your worry about noise travelling over water, but in this instance telling someone off for going too fast may very well be heard by people moored on the other bank, who will add to the ‘shame’ of the speeder as they pop their heads up and look – it is not as if one is going around the Broads ‘preaching’ using the loud hailer to all and sundry about how one must keep to the speed limit and not make wash.

 

I think what should be ‘drilled into people’ more is less about the actual speed and RPM to MPH and GPS etc but one easier to fathom thing WYW (Watch Your Wash.)

 

While I accept some craft produce very little at some speeds and others more at the same speed, generally speaking it is wash that causes the problems with erosion and discomfort and potentially dangerous situations for those moored so, if you cut the wash down your cut the speed all in one and life is better for all.

[johnb]

Hi Robin, it's not the use of these that concerns me, but the misuse! Two or three boats together see them being used properly,then decide to use  them to communicate between their boats, perhaps not always using the most savoury of language...... I did say I was probably going too far but that's just me.

[MauriceMynah]

Sorry Robin, I think JohnB has a point, I too can see such things being misused if the idea catches on!

[johnb]

Dave, I am not sure why opinions put on to a website you stop anyone visiting the Broads. I hope both you and I will continue to enjoy this area for many many years.

[Jonathan]

We keep on talking about the same things:  Inconsiderate, irresponsible and thoughtless boat "drivers"!

 

If people give way to sailing boats ....

If people slow down for speed limits, moored boats, fishermen ...

If people are proficient enough to avoid collisions but if a bump does occur: Stop and apologise ...

 

And now we have loud-hailers:  If used RESPONSIBLY there is no problem, and I can see that there may be occasions when their use might help.  The problem that I think we all want to avoid is when the loud-hailers start to get used inappropriately.

[Guest]

We keep on talking about the same things:  Inconsiderate, irresponsible and thoughtless boat "drivers"!

 

If people give way to sailing boats ....

If people slow down for speed limits, moored boats, fishermen ...

If people are proficient enough to avoid collisions but if a bump does occur: Stop and apologise ...

 

And now we have loud-hailers:  If used RESPONSIBLY there is no problem, and I can see that there may be occasions when their use might help.  The problem that I think we all want to avoid is when the loud-hailers start to get used inappropriately.

 

Good post, Jonathan. Personally, I can't see any need for anyone other than a BA ranger to use a megaphone on the Broads. Anyone using one in my direction is going to get very short shrift.

[johnb]

From above should be "would". Also I hope everyone will continue to enjoy, not just Dave and myself, although thinking about it.......we would have plenty of mooring spaces, but I guess not much to do at those places, if they relied on me for income, they would all soon be broke.

[fishtone]

If people are so concerned about other peoples behaviour why not set up a river version of Community Speed Watch.I don't go on the Broads to listen to a loud hailer. I say just let the Rangers do their job.

[BroadScot]

I have always thought them megawatsits were for boating lakes? Come in number 13 yer times up!

 

 

Iain.