Sailies-which Way?

[johnb]

I have usually managed to negotiate our boat around the rag and sticks, despite the science behind their progress being a total loss to me, however, I am now full of self doubt etc.

When the crew of such wave in a certain direction, are they indicating where they are going, or where they would like me to go (I am not referring to "rude" waving- I think I know what that means.) There has recently been some confusion between ourselves and a sailing boat which could have caused some damage.

[batrabill]

Most times, most people point to where they want you to go. 

I always try to make it really clear by over exaggerated pointing. 

[BrundallNavy]

Never pass in front of a tacking yacht as the speed is hard to judge, try to pass close behind them just after they have tacked the most common fault is not being close enough or quick enough as they can sometimes be across the other side and tacking again before you have passed the point where they were.  Most sailies will indicate which side they wish you to pass but be prompt and prepare to stop if it look like it's not going to work, at the end of the day you are responsible for passing safely.

You will find most yachts try to keep to the windward side bank so they do not always keep to one side of the river.

Doug.

[Chelsea14Ian]

I agree most skippers of sailing boats,will be clear telling you which way to go.I always enjoy boating around  sailing boats.

[Guest]

Just now, brundallNavy said:

Never pass in front of a tacking yacht as the speed is hard to judge, try to pass close behind them just after they have tacked the most common fault is not being close enough or quick enough as they can sometimes be across the other side and tacking again before you have passed the point where they were.  Most sailies will indicate which side they wish you to pass but be prompt and prepare to stop if it look like it's not going to work, at the end of the day you are responsible for passing safely.

You will find most yachts try to keep to the windward side bank so they do not always keep to one side of the river.

Doug.

More should any yacht tack under the bow of a powered vessel , but they do , as for direction most indicate where they want you to go , those that dont gee em up a bit by the horn and ask , simply because some seam to think your mystic Meg and cand read their minds , thing is neither should put their boat in a position where if the other party fails to realise their Intentions a collision could occur .

Only when you are overtaking are you responsible for the manoeuvre a yacht heading towards you has the same responsibly as to avoid a collision regardless of what they think , and no way would a responsible sailor force a powered vessel to stop or anything else if not in an emergacy its called skills and the art of safe and responsible sailing 

[YnysMon]

I've found if we can't complete our tack, especially on the narrower rivers, and have to turn early because there's someone motoring along not prepared to power down, we sometimes (temporarily) lose the ability to steer.  That's a right pain and rather unnerving.  I must admit we're not the most experienced Broads sailors though (understatement of the year). I thought that this year we were much better at indicating to other vessels our intentions, so we didn't have as many problems as the first year we sailed on the Broads.

It's also worth mentioning that the speed of a saily can vary hugely from one minute to the next, compounded by all sorts of things including trees (and bungalows) blocking the wind. 

Having both sailed and cruised I have sympathies on both sides of the boating community.  

Helen

[Guest]

Just now, YnysMon said:

I've found if we can't complete our tack, especially on the narrower rivers, and have to turn early because there's someone motoring along not prepared to power down, we sometimes (temporarily) lose the ability to steer.  That's a right pain and rather unnerving.  I must admit we're not the most experienced Broads sailors though (understatement of the year). I thought that this year we were much better at indicating to other vessels our intentions, so we didn't have as many problems as the first year we sailed on the Broads.

It's also worth mentioning that the speed of a saily can vary hugely from one minute to the next, compounded by all sorts of things including trees (and bungalows) blocking the wind. 

Having both sailed and cruised I have sympathies on both sides of the boating community.  

Helen

Totally agree Helen , iv a cruiser but also a variant of a mirror 10 on which see much earlier boat I learned to sail hence I see it from both sides and managed to sail in a cruiser through the entire be calmed yare navigation race in 2012 with nothing but complements from the racer's and not hitting reverse or even touching the throttle once , its easy when both party's know what to expect and how to act and above all act in a responsible manner .

[SwanR]

50 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Only when you are overtaking are you responsible for the manoeuvre a yacht heading towards you has the same responsibly as to avoid a collision regardless of what they think , and no way would a responsible sailor force a powered vessel to stop or anything else if not in an emergacy its called skills and the art of safe and responsible sailing 

We were out on a 21ft Pilot dayboat on the River Waveney today when we came up against a yacht tacking quite quickly. Our boat was tricky to control in the strong breeze close to Oulton Dyke and not that powerful. I was therefore struggling to find a gap to get past him and his intentions were very unclear. Being an experienced hirer I knew that he should have right of way but was astounded when he suddenly tacked back across again right in front of me. I had to do the equivalent of an emergency stop, throwing the boat quickly into reverse and almost being spun round by the wind and blown towards the reeds. I was completely unimpressed and the chap on the yacht didn't even acknowledge that I had taken action to avoid an otherwise almost certain collision. He just gave me a stare that seemed to indicate that he didn't think I had a clue. 

[quo vadis]

Just now, SwanR said:

We were out on a 21ft Pilot dayboat on the River Waveney today when we came up against a yacht tacking quite quickly. Our boat was tricky to control in the strong breeze close to Oulton Dyke and not that powerful. I was therefore struggling to find a gap to get past him and his intentions were very unclear. Being an experienced hirer I knew that he should have right of way but was astounded when he suddenly tacked back across again right in front of me. I had to do the equivalent of an emergency stop, throwing the boat quickly into reverse and almost being spun round by the wind and blown towards the reeds. I was completely unimpressed and the chap on the yacht didn't even acknowledge that I had taken action to avoid an otherwise almost certain collision. He just gave me a stare that seemed to indicate that he didn't think I had a clue. 

Unfortunately there is no cure for stupid 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, SwanR said:

We were out on a 21ft Pilot dayboat on the River Waveney today when we came up against a yacht tacking quite quickly. Our boat was tricky to control in the strong breeze close to Oulton Dyke and not that powerful. I was therefore struggling to find a gap to get past him and his intentions were very unclear. Being an experienced hirer I knew that he should have right of way but was astounded when he suddenly tacked back across again right in front of me. I had to do the equivalent of an emergency stop, throwing the boat quickly into reverse and almost being spun round by the wind and blown towards the reeds. I was completely unimpressed and the chap on the yacht didn't even acknowledge that I had taken action to avoid an otherwise almost certain collision. He just gave me a stare that seemed to indicate that he didn't think I had a clue. 

Unfortunately most treat hirer's as total Muppet's iv seen better hire boat skipper's than many private ones  as no doubt a lot have , what you experienced is exactly why sail boats get a bad name ie pure arrogance . sailing like that is unacceptable and only IMHO makes the said skipper look as if he is an idiot and not fit to even be afloat , no doubt he drives his car in exactly the same manner ie a complete disregard for others , well done for avoiding a collision not  that it was your sole responsibly to do so but I  guess some  like you Swan R   are more responsible than others  incidentally iv had that exact same manoeuvre done to me while towing 2 boats obviously I wasn't big enough to be seen even at 26' o/a beam and a flashing amber light .

[ExMemberBobdog]

I'll vote for the slow down a little bit and watch a couple of tacks.  Hug the right hand bank, and squeeze past as soon as possible behind the sailie immediately after he has tacked.  That way his movement is away from you and a collision cannot happen.  But you need to squeeze up close so you can make your pass as soon as he turns.  I both sail and motor, and I'm happy as a sailor when a Mobo treats me this way, and sailors always say thank you when I motor past in this fashion.

[quo vadis]

Just now, Bobdog said:

I'll vote for the slow down a little bit and watch a couple of tacks.  Hug the right hand bank, and squeeze past as soon as possible behind the sailie immediately after he has tacked.  That way his movement is away from you and a collision cannot happen.  But you need to squeeze up close so you can make your pass as soon as he turns.  I both sail and motor, and I'm happy as a sailor when a Mobo treats me this way, and sailors always say thank you when I motor past in this fashion.

I must have never passed you  "in this fashion" 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Bobdog said:

I'll vote for the slow down a little bit and watch a couple of tacks.  Hug the right hand bank, and squeeze past as soon as possible behind the sailie immediately after he has tacked.  That way his movement is away from you and a collision cannot happen.  But you need to squeeze up close so you can make your pass as soon as he turns.  I both sail and motor, and I'm happy as a sailor when a Mobo treats me this way, and sailors always say thank you when I motor past in this fashion.

They always say thank you ? Really do they , its rair to get a sailor to even acknowledge a mobo in any way let alone say thanks n what's wrong with throwing in a short tack ? Sailing under the bow of another vessel expecting them to take the nessasary avoiding action if required is totally out of order regardless of who's got right of way , it smacks of sheer bloody minded ness to prove a point ie iv right of way , the skippers of all vessels have a duty of care to avoid a collision regardless of who has right of way , good skippers don't cause others to take avoiding action for their benefit they modify their course to accommodate others .

[Polly]

Well I always try to give clear signals and always say thanks. Sailing being what it is, it's sometimes hard to say exactly where you are going next but the effort is always made. 

Him indoors so hates inconveniencing Mobos that we end up motor sailing rather than tacking against the wind. Personally, I think a bit of tacking does no harm at all! 

[Timbo]

One of the things I regret is that Uncle Albert never got the chance to teach me to sail. However, whenever I come across sailies I will remember his instruction.
"Gently Bently, hug the bank, let's see what Ted Heath's up to, get ready to slip behind him...nope I don't think he has a clue. Oi! Morning Glory! "
"I think you'll find Ted Heath's boat was Morning Cloud Dad."
"I'm not talking about Ted Heath's boat I'm talking to this pr...Aye up lad CBDR!"

I still don't know what CBDR meant, but it would often cause Uncle Albert to call the skipper of the sailie an 'amateur' which seems to really wind up the sailor types. I should point out Uncle Albert was a Keelman and a member of the RNSA since the 1960's...the old boy won a few regattas in his time.

[Hockham Admiral]

Tim, Hi. No idea if Uncle Albert knew about this one?     

"Common but differentiated responsibilities (CBDR)", 

[RumPunch]

If I need to indicate to a motor boats I'll normally point at them, then where I'd prefer they go. Maybe I'll then do the same in reverse - ie 'me - going there'

My big problem is if I need to pass a tacking vessel ( whilst I.m motoring ) as again, if I slow too much waiting behind them I lose steerage

[Poppy]

If you find me pointing at you and then pointind in a particular direction, that is the way I would like you to pass by .

As for not tacking across the bows of a motor cruiser......

[SwanR]

The thing I just would like sailies to remember is that just because a boat has a motor it doesn't always mean that it's easy to control. Once you take the revs off to slow down or stop then you can be equally at the mercy of the wind and the tides and start to drift. In that situation where the yacht can easily turn a bit sooner do they actually have more control? I know they have right of way but all I ask is for a bit more thought and consideration when they can see that you're trying your best to keep over.

Have to say that the people at Beccles yacht club were brilliant yesterday with safety boats out keeping the young sailors and other boats apart.

[Poppy]

Just now, SwanR said:

The thing I just would like sailies to remember is that just because a boat has a motor it doesn't always mean that it's easy to control. Once you take the revs off to slow down or stop then you can be equally at the mercy of the wind and the tides and start to drift.

When I did my RYA inland waterways hemsman and the Power Boat level 2 wew were taught to anticipate and be prepared to use throttle and gears to control the craft. I admit it takes practice and a bit of experience, but it's not too difficult.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Poppy said:

When I did my RYA inland waterways hemsman and the Power Boat level 2 wew were taught to anticipate and be prepared to use throttle and gears to control the craft. I admit it takes practice and a bit of experience, but it's not too difficult.

No its not difficult to do that but why do some sailing craft skippers force that situation in the first place , is gaining that extra few feet of river really worth putting both their boat and another in a possibly dangerous situation ? I would always tack early , that way the cruiser carry's on cruising with no problem's and I don't risk posable damage when things  ( and things do ) go wrong , this way everyone is happy and no one blows a fuse , this can only be really applied to normal day to day sailing , under race conditions its totally different and any skipper of a motor vessel would be wise to not get involved as all the river will be used to gain an advantage , but day to day sailing to me its just not good seamanship  to make another boat stop etc .

[YnysMon]

Depends how much wind there is really.  If there's a good wind and a reasonable width of river tacking early isn't a problem.  The difficulties start when there's little room and little wind.  Last year whilst sailing (or trying to) on the Ant we got into all sorts of difficulties because the wind was so unpredictable...including getting stuck in a tree, and then getting blown sideways onto boats along the How Hill section.  It was all a bit embarrassing, but at least we didn't damage our boat or anyone else's (thank goodness!). 

Helen

[Poppy]

1 minute ago, YnysMon said:

Depends how much wind there is really.  If there's a good wind and a reasonable width of river tacking early isn't a problem.  The difficulties start when there's little room and little wind. 

Not forgetting the tide. Pusing the flow can have major inpacts on a sail boat not noticeable to a motor boat.

[ExMemberBobdog]

20 hours ago, Ricardo said:

They always say thank you ? Really do they , its rair to get a sailor to even acknowledge a mobo in any way let alone say thanks n what's wrong with throwing in a short tack ? Sailing under the bow of another vessel expecting them to take the nessasary avoiding action if required is totally out of order regardless of who's got right of way , it smacks of sheer bloody minded ness to prove a point ie iv right of way , the skippers of all vessels have a duty of care to avoid a collision regardless of who has right of way , good skippers don't cause others to take avoiding action for their benefit they modify their course to accommodate others .

Nice to see the spirit of friendliness and co-operation is alive and well.

[Springsong]

At least as someone said, with a rude sign / wave, you know exactly where they would like you to go.