What Would You Do?

[Wussername]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/water-safety-week-warning-1-5492183

Would you go in?

Andrew

[vanessan]

I don’t think I could say what I’d do until it happened. Most people go with their instinct and I would imagine not very many would carry out a health and safety audit whilst standing watching someone in trouble. Having said that, I know that as I have got older I have become all too aware of my limitations and would most likely end up a danger to everybody! A call to 999 would most likely be my first act then. 

 

[Wussername]

I think that the worst nightmare would be if a young child was involved.

I once asked a quay assistant what he would do. He replied that they are under strict instructions not to enter the water under any circumstances. However he did say that this would be a big ask.

The brave actions at Great Yarmouth last year demonstrated how difficult it can be.

Andrew

[WherryNice]

I think it would depend on who it was that had fallen in, for example my niece(aged 9) fell out of a canoe on my folks mooring at Malthouse Broad last weekend and my reaction was pure instinct- Get Her Out!, I didnt go in as it wasnt needed in that particular instance but I know I would do if she was in immediate danger as I simply couldnt live with myself if I didnt do everything I could to save her.

An adult stranger might invoke a different reaction in me however.

It worries me that being told not to go in after a person could stop people from doing anything to help, you often hear of people just looking on as incidents of all kinds occur and I know from expirience the feeling of being frozen to the spot when something bad has happened.

All in all its a complicated topic and its always easy to look back and say what Should have happened but if you werent there then how can you judge a persons reactions.

 

[WherryNice]

17 minutes ago, Wussername said:

The brave actions at Great Yarmouth last year demonstrated how difficult it can be. 

Now I cannot be sure of this but I strongly suspect that had that chap not gone in after the little girl then the outcome would have been tragedy not celebration.

I firmly believe that in the moment nobody is thinking about being a "Hero" they just do what they feel they should.

[TheQ]

The problem with the firebrigades statements is they are not there when it happens, no  one going in could mean an unneccessary death.

For me personally, I know I float and can do so for hours. I know I was taught to rescue people from water right from school days, though unfortunately I don't carry a pair of pyjama trousers around with me..

I've been round the broads for 40+ years and have been in many times, including in the centre of Norwich, remember the Norwich raft races? Unless in the depths of winter, I wouldn't have a problem. The only problem would be therefore, getting the casualty to a bank where there is a ladder or some other way to get out of the river.

So yes I would go in, unless there is a life ring and rope or similar I can get to the casualty without getting wet.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, WherryNice said:

It worries me that being told not to go in after a person could stop people from doing anything to help, you often hear of people just looking on as incidents of all kinds occur

No professional advice asks people not to help, throwing life saving equipment into the water for the casualty is helping, calling 999 is helping.

The reason people are told not to go into the water is in a large number of instances one casualty becomes two, which becomes three and so on. 

A lot of people over estimate their abilities and under estimate the power of water as well as the inherent dangers associated with it, ending up exhausted and unable to rescue themselves or suffering hypothermia and shock.

If a rescuer arrives at a casualty are they aware of how to deal with the situation? Do they expect a panicking frightened and exhausted casualty to respond to them calmly? It is completely normal for a rescuer to be put into difficulties by the casualty pulling the rescuer under the water in panic.

I shall drop out of the conversation now as I don't want to come across as preachy, however the advice is given for very very good reasons.

[johnb]

My inclination is to do whatever is needed, but my mind tells me that I am no longer strong enough swimming to actually get in the water. My problem would be living with that if a tragedy should happen, I think many people would be thinking there must have been more "I" could do.

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Wussername said:

Would you go in?

Andrew

Yes. Every time.

How many times? Lost count.

It's all very well for me to say that, as I grew up on a boatyard and have had a lot of training over the years. Like The Q - and Andrew - perhaps I am not a "normal" bystander in that respect.

Jay fire's advice is very wise. If you are a strong swimmer who is also familiar with the water rescue environment then of course, you won't just stand there - you will go in. If not, then find other ways to help. Dial 999, yell like hell for help. Find something to throw in to assist the person to float. Maybe cast off a dinghy and go out in it, so at least you can assist the person to float while other help arrives.

By the way, life-rings on the quay always have a line attached, so the the swimmer can get hold of the ring and you can pull them back to the bank. How many boats do you see on the Broads which actually have a light line, of at least 20 metres, attached to the life-ring and coiled ready for throwing? Without it, they are pretty well useless, especially with a tide running.

[Cockatoo]

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

The problem with the firebrigades statements is they are not there when it happens, no  one going in could mean an unneccessary death.

For me personally, I know I float and can do so for hours. I know I was taught to rescue people from water right from school days, though unfortunately I don't carry a pair of pyjama trousers around with me..

 

I remember that as well from school, earning a 'Lifesaver' badge in junior school and nagging mum to sew it on my trunks 

 

I also know I have a good layer of fat around my core which should give me longer in cold water.

 

I think any situation has to be evaluated at the time and who (or what) is in the water plays a big part. As does who else is around on the bank.

[Cockatoo]

36 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

By the way, life-rings on the quay always have a line attached, so the the swimmer can get hold of the ring and you can pull them back to the bank. How many boats do you see on the Broads which actually have a light line, of at least 20 metres, attached to the life-ring and coiled ready for throwing? Without it, they are pretty well useless, especially with a tide running.

That's a good heads up Vaughan, RB has one each side but looking at this photo the port one's line looks a bit of a mess. It's not something I'd thought about to be honest 

Something to check in a fortnight's time.

[Wonderwall]

The statement is slightly contradictory in that it states (roughly) call the services and seek help from passers by.

If you are having a stroll along the river bank and are summoned by a cry of " help my ---------------- is in the river and cant get out" then I doubt they are looking for verbal support.

I aint no hero, but I would imagine I would enter the water at Norwich after weighing up the options, Yarmouth however , is of course another matter.

Staying calm and thinking straight is the answer of course, easier said than done however.

[ranworthbreeze]

44 minutes ago, SteveDuk said:

That's a good heads up Vaughan, RB has one each side but looking at this photo the port one's line looks a bit of a mess. It's not something I'd thought about to be honest 

Something to check in a fortnight's time.

Hi Steve,

When we were a managed syndicate rather than self managed, the lifebuoys did not have floating lines attached. If you check them out remember to tie the loose end of the line to the grab rail.

Regards

Alan 

[Cockatoo]

1 hour ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Hi Steve,

When we were a managed syndicate rather than self managed, the lifebuoys did not have floating lines attached. If you check them out remember to tie the loose end of the line to the grab rail.

Regards

Alan 

That would be a schoolboy error wouldn't it lol

[Ray]

This is a question often in the back of my mind because in fact I can't swim! I know I would feel desperate to help someone in trouble but not want to give the emergency services another victim to rescue.

I wear my life jacket personally so no one will have to risk their life saving me, my life-ring does have a long floating line (tied to the boat) and I carry one of those emergency ladders that can be tied off to your boat or a bank because I saw a documentary in which it was clear that getting someone out of the water is no easy thing especially if they are not in a position to help themselves.

Hopefully I'll never need to rescue someone or be rescued but under the circumstances I'll do whatever I can!

[vanessan]

6 hours ago, Wonderwall said:

 

The statement is slightly contradictory in that it states (roughly) call the services and seek help from passers by.

 If you are having a stroll along the river bank and are summoned by a cry of " help my ---------------- is in the river and cant get out" then I doubt they are looking for verbal support.

 

This is a thought I had too. If you’ve already called 999, then continuing to shout for help is probably going to attract someone else who will wonder what they should do. 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

8 hours ago, Jayfire said:

No professional advice asks people not to help, throwing life saving equipment into the water for the casualty is helping, calling 999 is helping.

The reason people are told not to go into the water is in a large number of instances one casualty becomes two, which becomes three and so on. 

A lot of people over estimate their abilities and under estimate the power of water as well as the inherent dangers associated with it, ending up exhausted and unable to rescue themselves or suffering hypothermia and shock.

If a rescuer arrives at a casualty are they aware of how to deal with the situation? Do they expect a panicking frightened and exhausted casualty to respond to them calmly? It is completely normal for a rescuer to be put into difficulties by the casualty pulling the rescuer under the water in panic.

I shall drop out of the conversation now as I don't want to come across as preachy, however the advice is given for very very good reasons.

No need to drop out Jay, and it DOES`NT come across as "preachy", it`s good solid sound advice. All too often we hear about someone who has payed the price for trying to be a good samaritan, only to get caught out themselves and lose their lives, along with the person they were trying to help. As you rightly say, one victim becomes two.

[grendel]

I would like to think I would do my best to assist in a rescue, whether that meant me getting in the water myself I dont know, it would depend on the circumstances and whether my getting into the water would help. I tend to be a person who doesnt react instantly, but takes stock and effective action, but I also dont panic easily. for example a few years back I was driving across a junction when an old chap crossing the pedestrian crossing took a tumble in the road, my passenger leapt out of the car to assist, but I drove forward and blocked the junction so both the old gent and my passenger were in a safe zone, the other cars trying to turn into the junction werent happy with me, but everyone was safe. in he end the old chap was unhappy as he had smashed the bottle of beer he had just bought in the shop, but otherwise unhurt.

In all fairness the unhappy drivers probably couldnt see the old guy lying in the road while they were hooting and yelling, and I did move as soon as he was clear of the traffic

[Gretzky]

I have in the past pulled 2 people out of the wet stuff, one was a young girl, pretty easy really just reached over the bank and lifted her out, the second was an older gent, that was much harder, took 2 of us to lift him out. both times fourtunatly there was no need to enter the water. I was once surfing in Lanzarotte, it was on a remote beach with no life guards etc, a poor guy was swimming and got caught in a rip tide. I rolled off the board and pushed it out to him to grab hold of, then begain swimming him back to shore, I swam across the current but after a while I noticed I was really stuggling to make progress with him, at the time I was pretty fit too but quickly running out of steam! The things that go though your mind at a time like are I will tell you are worrying. I was almost at the point of undoing the leg strap and just giving him the board when I managed to touch the bottom. I got him to saftey and just rolled back laid on the board and got the next wave in. I was totally exhaused. The aftermath was nightmares of what could have gone wrong for days after.

[Guest]

Defiantly no I would not , if you are the only one there its too risky use the things available to you that's why my boat carry's 2 life rings both with 30m floating line attached and a throwing line too + I make sure that they ain't all tangled up regularly , iv lost count of the folk that have died in the rivers just between NYS and Thorpe marsh's in the 9 years of being in Norfolk , n yep I actually practice recovery using an old fender on surlingham broads as I have been in the exact situation ie recovering someone from the river in February and at night n you can bet your last dollar I phoned 999 for the coastguard first which alerts all the relivent emergency services .

Incidentally the area where this happened has railings to prevent this so no idea how it happened .

[High6]

I've never tried sinking a fender - is it enough to support someone for a short time?

[Bound2Please]

Having went in last summer, (River Ant) people say how shallow it is, i was about 3 - 4ft from bank (wild mooring close to Barton) no life jacket on. As I went in I was thinking shallow the water is nice and warm, at about 8ft down my foot hit freezing cold water, it made me gasp in doing so drinking a large quantity of foul river water. I did notice bottom of boat clean on my way up (it was still as clean when she came out in mid winter). I struggled big time to get out in just jeans and tee shirt, to the point of about to jettyson my jeans. But I got a foot hold on some tree roots and heaved myself out exhausted. No ladder would help unless it had at least one rung 18inches or more below the surface, and some strong to pull on to release the suction of the water. I am working on an emergency ladder that will work. Also trying to remember to don life jacket when mooring up etc. I have been on/in and about boats most of my life on and off, my eyes are opened now.

Charlie

[Ray]

Glad you were OK and thanks for this eye opener, there is nothing better than experience to learn from.

Would be interested to hear about your ladder mod when completed.

[Maxwellian]

This is part of a post that I posted back in 2013.....

Several years ago (must have been 2008)............David would have been about fifteen at the time.

Up early next morning to get to Norwich for moorings and a trip around the city. Engine on and ready to go. David ready to release the stern rope and I was releasing the bow rope. I released the rope and leaning on the boat to push it away into the current and jump back on ready to set off after David had release the stern rope. Well things did not go as planned. As I pushed the bow off ready to get back on my walking boots slipped on the wooden mooring. Legs went backwards as boat moved away from the bank. You can see where this is going. It is a funny feeling and it all seems to happen in slow motion. There I was hands firmly gripping the boat, knuckles were white by this stage, and feet were desperately trying to hook something on the bank. There comes a time during this slow motion thinking as the boat and bank get further apart and you go from vertical to horizontal that you have to decide which end, head or legs is going to get wet. My decision was legs. So in they went. 

Imagine desperately hanging on to the side of the boat now soaking wet up to the waist. No problem I thought will just pull myself up into the boat. With the weight of the water there was no way that I was going to get into the boat. This is the point that I learnt the importance of wearing a life jacket as well as proper foot ware. Only problem mine was on the boat while I was only hanging onto the side of it, only the wrong side of it. Here comes the good fortune. David having heard the splash had luckily not untied the stern rope and had come to see what was going on. After a quick snigger he had the sense to go aft to where he could pull the boat towards the bank. At that point he got the bow rope and pulled it in. So now I have one hand on the bank and one on the boat trying to get my legs on the bank to get myself out. A very nice man who was solo on the boat moored in front of us gave David a hand to pull me out.

How embarrassing I was dripping from the waist down and just wanted to get out of there. The man suggested that we tie up again but I wanted to vanish as soon as possible. Off we went.

No problem I thought David can steer for a few minutes while I have a quick shower and change of clothes. I was in the shower when there was a shriek followed by a shout of Ian. Out of the shower and we were heading towards the reeds. I straightened the boat and instructed them on over compensation of the steering and how not to over correct. I gave it a few minutes and thought it safe to go back into the shower. This time I was just covered in shampoo when there was another shriek. Dived out of the shower to be met with a towel. We were now in the reeds. Luckily not too far. A quick reverse and got us back on course. David was not willing to touch the steering again, I wonder why. Up steps Susannah only twelve years old and takes over the Helm. Looked as though she had been doing it for years. I managed to get the shampoo rinsed out and dressed. Not long after that the man who helped me out steamed past......quick look away....hide. We made it to Norwich and had a lovely day. 

 

In deed the rest of the holiday went well. We have been back every year except one when we went on the Thames and we are booked up for next year, but it could have all been so different.

 

Lesson learnt;

 

Always wear your life jacket when anywhere on the outside of the boat, especially mooring. Always wear non slip foot ware.

 

My family often joke and laugh about my falling in and tell every one.

 

Because of my embarrassment and trying to get away and hide I never really thanked the man that helped get me out. If you read this you have my utmost thanks for your help that day.

[Malanka]

When I was in Primary school in the 70's in Rochdale everyone in the school at junior three as it was called at the time received "safety in the environment training" from the fire brigade. Was great fun as they brought in a huge tender we got to play about on.

The mantra then was R.T.R.R.

Which equated to:

Reach

Throw

Rope

Row

Only if none of those things was available was any discussion at all undertaken on "going in".

If anyone was about in the North of England (Lancashire please), we had a huge spate of canal and gravel pit drownings both summer and winter. So we all got this training 46 years ago.

I also have life saving badges and diver recovery certificates galore, but practicing in a pool in warm water in jammies in no way prepares you for winter cold water in jeans and a jumper. So on this ocasion no I would not have gone in. I would have retrieved a life ring.

 

One time when i did "go in" was in South Walsham broad in the scorching summer of 1983. I would have been 21 at the time and Mr fit and healthy, squash playing, endurance swimming fitness nutter. Family mud weighted about 60 yards behind us, neither mother nor father could swim as became obvious later, and their only child of about 6 or so fell over the side of the bow of the boat, we saw this immediately from our position sunbathing on the back of Juliet 9. Neither parent saw anything and were doing nothing. We yelled very loudly and saw that the child had slipped his grip on a fender and was clearly floundering, he started screaming for his life as he clearly could not swim either. The boat was less than three feet away from him but he simply couldn't reach it. Both mother and father started screaming and clearly panicking as they could not reach him, this started the child to hysterics of crying and screaming so he wasn't breathing much, ( the boat had a life ring on the roof), their boat had a tender so father goes to back of boat gets the dinghy and pulls himself  (not rowing) round to the child and lifts him out.

Sounds great and a good result, except that the only reason the father had the time to do all that was that I had immediately jumped into the water swam quickly across and held the child up for the father to lift him out, he couldn't do it from the dinghy by himself. I also climbed up the back of the boat and put a rope with a loop on the end on the stern line of the boat for them so if it happened again they could give him the rope. Why he didn't use the life ring I have no idea, maybe not being a swimmer it didn't occur to him I just don't know.   None of them were wearing life jackets but in their defence the old huge orange jobbies would have been unbearable in that heat it was well over 30 degrees.

After doing that the water was so pleasant I then swam about for the next half an hour or so and afterwards relaxed on board in the sun to chill. I was young and very foolish.

Would I do that now, no I would not.