Coronavirus And The Broads

[ExSurveyor]

6 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Certainly, they would like you to think that. 

The problem is that you're probably now part of the spin machine. 

There is little doubt that had anybody else won the last election that the situation would be massively improved over now, but it is hard to ignore Johnson's address in Greenwich in February telling the world that the UK would take it on the chin and keep the economy going. That wasn't a leader talking, that was a man who's beholden to the support of companies that stand to lose massively in an economic downturn. We can't ignore the previous 10 years of under funding that lead to this - we must not ignore it. We must not also ignore the opportunity that this has brought to increase surveillance, water down planning regulations, strengthen police powers, avoid scrutiny and so on.  

Little will be as it appears, you can be sure of that. 

 

Definitely not part of or taken in by spin machines.

Probably not the place for a discussion on the need for or otherwise of previous austerity measures and party politics.

Whatever flavour of government they still have to penetrate the impenetrable Civil Service and Health  procurement organizations.

 

 

[rightsaidfred]

6 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Certainly, they would like you to think that. 

The problem is that you're probably now part of the spin machine. 

There is little doubt that had anybody else won the last election that the situation would be massively improved over now, but it is hard to ignore Johnson's address in Greenwich in February telling the world that the UK would take it on the chin and keep the economy going. That wasn't a leader talking, that was a man who's beholden to the support of companies that stand to lose massively in an economic downturn. We can't ignore the previous 10 years of under funding that lead to this - we must not ignore it. We must not also ignore the opportunity that this has brought to increase surveillance, water down planning regulations, strengthen police powers, avoid scrutiny and so on.  

Little will be as it appears, you can be sure of that. 

 

Sorry Andy but if you want to play the party card you are on a looser, personally I dont have any political affiliation but given both London and my local authority are run by those of the opposite persuation I and many others are dismayed at the way they are ruining our every day life, as a business man you should also be aware that just in time became the mantra of the 80s and our manufacturing base was destroyed in the 1970s and not by politicans of any  party.

Fred

[Ray]

23 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Duty of care including providing adequate  equipment lies with the employer including privately run care homes, transport for London stops with the Mayor not where he wants to pass the buck, I am sure this also applies to other cities or local authorities, while the NHS  is funded by the government its day to day running is done by civil servants and we all know what happens when you question their abilities, before we start looking for scapegoats lets look at everybodys  responsabities including those individuals and businesses flouting the recomendations.

Fred

Agree with all that, IF mistakes have been made then who made them is an important part of the enquiry. No scapegoats sought, just facts. Even mistakes are acceptable and understandable but if there has has been negligence and poor judgement against expert advice we need and deserve to know.

[Oddfellow]

3 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Definitely not part of or taken in by spin machines.

 

Then let the government defend itself; let it dig its own hole. 

 

[Ray]

28 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

From a standing start, to where we are now is no mean feat.

It wasn't, or shouldn't have been a standing start though!

[ExSurveyor]

Just now, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Then let the government defend itself; let it dig its own hole. 

 

Better still, let it get on with the job in hand, we don't have an elected alternative waiting. When the dust settles at some time in the future we can all sit back and review what happened with the benefit of actual statistics.

 

 

[Oddfellow]

The 

3 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Sorry Andy but if you want to play the party card you are on a looser, personally I dont have any political affiliation but given both London and my local authority are run by those of the opposite persuation I and many others are dismayed at the way they are ruining our every day life, as a business man you should also be aware that just in time became the mantra of the 80s and our manufacturing base was destroyed in the 1970s and not by politicans of any  party.

Fred

I am not playing the party card at all. There will always be people who don't agree with what's happening in authorities and local authorities are so hamstrung by central government that it's always worth looking a but beyond the surface. There are wrong-'uns in every political party.  

[OldBerkshireBoy]

3 minutes ago, Ray said:

It wasn't, or shouldn't have been a standing start though!

We can blame China for that! Not the first time that they have been slow to tell the facts is it.

[Oddfellow]

1 minute ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Better still, let it get on with the job in hand, we don't have an elected alternative waiting. When the dust settles at some time in the future we can all sit back and review what happened with the benefit of actual statistics.

 

 

What, wait until there'100,000 dead 20+ months down the line before there's any scrutiny or public anger?

 

[Ray]

15 minutes ago, marshman said:

Lets leave these patently ridiculous comments and observations coming out now to the real experts and concentrate on the Broads and just bashing the BA

Let's not! A t'hey know best' option is never the way to have have decent governance. We, the people, have a right to scrutinise even if we do so from a position of alleged incompetance

[rightsaidfred]

8 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

The 

I am not playing the party card at all. There will always be people who don't agree with what's happening in authorities and local authorities are so hamstrung by central government that it's always worth looking a but beyond the surface. There are wrong-'uns in every political party.  

What I am talking about actually involves wasting finances not a lack, more a case of an agenda but that is another story and nothing to do with the  current situation, but then there are far more important things at stake than whats affecting each of us on personal level.

Fred

[marshman]

Ok then - lets talk about Covid 19 being spread by 5G masts! Perfectly sensible comment and very relevant to the Broads!!

[Chelsea14Ian]

What's your name David Icke?

[marshman]

Just checked - don't look much like Amanda Holden either but to be fair, there have been so many other rather silly comments being thrown around this afternoon, I thought I would add my stupid addition!!!

[Wonderwall]

23 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

We can blame China for that! Not the first time that they have been slow to tell the facts is it.

I don't get that.

We knew in January that something was brewing. We stood and watched Italy being overwhelmed. We done nothing , not a thing , until it was too late.

Denmark locked down before they had any cases. They are now out of luck down.

As Bob Dylan said, you don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind blows. 

[Vaughan]

Three months ago, did we even know what PPE meant?

I agree with Marshman, this discussion has become ridiculous.

I ask again, for the third time, could we keep this thread for talking about the possible effect on the Broads of this virus?

There are plenty of other threads available for amateur medical opinions.  I also suggest to the moderators that we don't talk politics on this forum.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

9 minutes ago, Wonderwall said:

I don't get that.

We knew in January that something was brewing. We stood and watched Italy being overwhelmed. We done nothing , not a thing , until it was too late.

What was the time gap between China knowing there was a problem before first telling the world and then saying how bad it really was, and unless  you know more than what you read or hear and by that you have a mate in the cabinet then you shouldn`t jump on bandwagons.

[Ray]

20 minutes ago, marshman said:

there have been so many other rather silly comments being thrown around this afternoon,

I've seen lots of comments and opinions but apart from the obviously meant as a joke comment about 5g they have all seemed reasonable based on personal understanding and experience, including the ones I happen to disagree with.

[Ray]

4 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I agree with Marshman, this discussion has become ridiculous.

 

5 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

There are plenty of other threads available for amateur medical opinions.

But would they be ridiculous and amateur if you agreed with them?

[Wonderwall]

1 minute ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

What was the time gap between China knowing there was a problem before first telling the world and then saying how bad it really was, and unless  you know more than what you read or hear and by that you have a mate in the cabinet then you shouldn`t jump on bandwagons.

Are you saying that we weren't aware of a new virus in January? I don't have a mate in the " know"

I do have eyes and ears , and I watched as other countries reacted, while our leaders told us to take it on the chin. 

it has been incompetence at best, criminal some might say. It's all very sad .

[Mouldy]

On 07/05/2020 at 08:58, Chelsea14Ian said:

  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . probley until a vaccine is available. So we need to take small steps. . . . . . . . . .

I’m sure I read somewhere recently that the virus is already mutating, so finding an effective vaccine is not going to be easy.  Realistically, we cannot keep the country in lockdown until a vaccine is produced, so perhaps we need to look at a new ‘normal’ which will allow us to get back to work and enjoy our leisure activities, but still pay attention to how we behave and accept some social distancing.

[ExSurveyor]

For those who are practicing social distancing it will become second nature, for the muppets who are ignoring it, there is no hope.

The research I read is that there are 32 strains of Covid19 but all have identical parts, this is what is being targeted by the vaccine.

[Mouldy]

I only hope that the financial carnage that paying for this crisis will cause, will stop the building of HS2 and the resulting destruction of homes and countryside.  Is it really necessary to get from London to Birmingham a few minutes faster, a service that will only be available to a small minority of the population.  Perhaps being forced to work from home for a few weeks will persuade some people that spending hours commuting need not be essential.

[Meantime]

1 hour ago, marshman said:

Just checked - don't look much like Amanda Holden either but to be fair, there have been so many other rather silly comments being thrown around this afternoon, I thought I would add my stupid addition!!!

And I've not said a word all afternoon!

[MotorBoater]

Not sure what we are seeing here, is it some kind of stir crazy mass hysteria ?

To rush into some kind of blame game is premature and a waste of time and brainpower.

Sorry webntweb, there is bound to be numerous "expensive 'who can we blame next' inquiries'". At least they will carry the Inquiry label but then they can't call themselves "Pass The Buck Committees" can they.

We have long had a two tier system of government in this country. On the one hand the elected politicians with little or no experience of running even a milk round, and on the other the advisors and the civil service who are supposed to do the donkey work.

Who ever the politician, the machine (Civil Service) is still the same. We can kick out the politicians but who holds the civil service mandarins to account ? Never been sure if their medals and honours are for exemplary service or ability to stay out of trouble.

I cannot see any government getting through any crisis without mistakes and unfortunatly it costs lives. A sad result.

Just think back to poor equipment issues in Afghanistan (Land Rovers) or aircraft carriers launched with no aircraft for two years. There are probably other examples but I'm too tired to think right now.

Nothing has hit the "Home Front" this hard however.

In an ideal world there wouldn't be room for mistakes but then an ideal world wouldn't have a Coronavirus would it.

Mistakes will arise from taking the apparent best advice at any given time of any given emergency. It therefore follows that the PPE crisis is more than a mistake, it is a disgrace, since this was flagged as a problem two years ago, or more.

This crisis is about a virus, but it is also about the people, 50+ years of dealing with the public means no real surprises there. No surprises from the authorities either, kid gloves to start with lest anyone shout "Human Rights", then jump in with both feet when it's too late.

Incidentally I had a phone call this morning from a friend of mine who owns a newsagents/post office, who I obviously haven't seen or spoken to for sometime. He has long had a reputation for helping locals with various dificult supplies and was sourcing eggs, cereals, toilet rolls and the like. He told me he felt he had to shut the shop for FOUR days in March because the local population was out of control, and even waiting by his back door attempting first pick of his deliveries.

His father, who took over a large hardware and homewares shop I ran next door, is trying to get hold of me. There is no way I'm entering that bear pit again so he can keep trying.

The Boris is to make his announcement tomorrow and no doubt the media will pore over every phrase and full stop, I shall watch him, and probably give the news programs a miss for a couple of days - unless he says boating is allowed, see Marshman, back on topic !