Coronavirus And The Broads

[MauriceMynah]

6 months ago, the situation we are currently in would have been described as "the stuff of films" Had the government paid to keep those emergency PPE things up to date, there would have been outrage as something more current would have had to suffer.

For those who think the government has failed in it's duties, the solution is simple. Stand for election and prove that not only you could do better, but that the voters who put you in agreed.

[Poppy]

33 minutes ago, vanessan said:

I think it was Sky News that reported a few days ago that a lot of the PPE put aside for ‘emergencies’ had gone out of date. Whether or not that is actually true I have no idea but it’s that sort of thing that needs to be looked at to ensure it doesn’t happen again. (I also read somewhere that a warning was given after an exercise in 2017 that the country was holding insufficient stocks of PPE anyway.)

Exercise Cygnus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Cygnus

I too heard about the 'out of date' thing.  With proper storage and regular checks I find that hard to accept.  This whole 'best before' thing is a nonsense in many instances. I once bought some gravel for a fish tank which carried a 'best before' sticker 

[Chelsea14Ian]

One fact for sure the world  has never seen anything like this before.I for one hope we never go through this again. There are and will be much to learn from this in future. Has any country got every thing right?I doubt it.Once we come out of this.Then is the time to see what could have been done better.

[ExSurveyor]

20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing and only available to Enquiries.

[ExSurveyor]

Large private companies failed to hold adequate or the correct PPE, they failed to ensure their staff had adequate training to use the enhanced PPE should it ever be needed.

The question that needs to be asked is why these private care homes were not prepared either.

When a company charges up to £60,000 a year for care they should be making contingency plans as well.

[vanessan]

I actually don’t think the government has done a bad job, I doubt if any government could have done better. We read what the media want to give us to read, repeating it doesn’t necessarily mean we believe it or agree or disagree with it. It wouldn’t surprise me if quite a few countries hold some sort of inquiry to establish whether or not some aspects of the crisis handling could have been done better. 
 

[Wonderwall]

6 minutes ago, vanessan said:

I actually don’t think the government has done a bad job, I doubt if any government could have done better. We read what the media want to give us to read, repeating it doesn’t necessarily mean we believe it or agree or disagree with it. It wouldn’t surprise me if quite a few countries hold some sort of inquiry to establish whether or not some aspects of the crisis handling could have been done better. 
 

Really?

Having the worse  death rate per head in the whole world is " not a bad job? "

Standing watching Italy being devastated , while allowing Cheltenham festival to go ahead , saying we should just " take this virus on the chin"

My flabber is gasted. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

The only winners (In there mind ).Is smart A####d  reporters.Ask a question, get a answer, ask another question, then another. Most people understand the answer to the first question.

[Ray]

Everyone who seeks or takes on responsibility should be ready to demonstrate that they have taken either the right steps, the only steps, the best advice on steps and timely steps. Standing back and saying in effect "if you think you can do better then you try it" doesn't begin to equate to accountability, If everyone has to be an expert in everything before they are able to investigate, enquire or criticise no justice would ever prevail.

If you want the job where the buck stops be prepared for the buck!

[ExSurveyor]

19 minutes ago, Wonderwall said:

Really?

Having the worse  death rate per head in the whole world is " not a bad job? "

Standing watching Italy being devastated , while allowing Cheltenham festival to go ahead , saying we should just " take this virus on the chin"

My flabber is gasted. 

Belgium has the highest rate per population, we are just below Italy.

Mistakes were made in many countries at the start of this new virus, Some are still making mistakes.

[vanessan]

10 minutes ago, Wonderwall said:

Really?

Having the worse  death rate per head in the whole world is " not a bad job? "

Standing watching Italy being devastated , while allowing Cheltenham festival to go ahead , saying we should just " take this virus on the chin"

My flabber is gasted. 

But do we have the worst death rate? We really don’t know, as far as I can tell the way that each country reports seems to vary. I doubt if the US can give a true figure and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a certain amount of statistic massaging across the globe. (I am still wondering how Matt Hancock managed his 100,000 tests on the 30 April when he hasn’t managed it since.) In the cold light of day, I think we will need to look at how, when, where and why the UK and other countries did what they did and what the outcome of those actions was. If that is done in good time, we may be better prepared if the worst happens and a second wave comes along - God forbid. 

[webntweb]

40 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

One fact for sure the world  has never seen anything like this before.I for one hope we never go through this again. There are and will be much to learn from this in future. Has any country got every thing right?I doubt it.Once we come out of this.Then is the time to see what could have been done better.

And not with expensive 'who can we blame next' inquiries'. There was a lawyer on tv the other night who had been involved in the Hillsborough inquiries saying there needs to be inquiries in to many aspect of the governments handling of this crisis . . . when what he really meant was "so I can line my overflowing pockets with even more of the taxpayers money".

[Wonderwall]

1 minute ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Belgium has the highest rate per population, we are just below Italy.

Mistakes were made in many countries at the start of this new virus, Some are still making mistakes.

Genuinely interested here.

Do you watch our leaders react to this pandemic and think it's a decent response , with good leadership, acting on the front foot from the get go?

Do you think it is acceptable that months into this , we cannot even supply the front line workers with appropriate , basic PPE.

[Oddfellow]

55 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

6 months ago, the situation we are currently in would have been described as "the stuff of films" Had the government paid to keep those emergency PPE things up to date, there would have been outrage as something more current would have had to suffer.

For those who think the government has failed in it's duties, the solution is simple. Stand for election and prove that not only you could do better, but that the voters who put you in agreed.

Wow, what an oversimplification of the the predicament. 

Let's take that apart:

1) Six months ago some people might have described today as "the stuff of films" but those who are in charge should be fully aware of the threats to this planet and its life. Universities, pharmaceutical giants, epidemiologists (there's a word seldom used 6 months ago) and more are all well aware of the potential for unseen threats to harm us. 

2) It is the Government's job to keep the country safe. It's its overriding job. Most of the time, the Government will tell you that it is keeping you safe with Trident or the rapidly depleting armed forces or other such things. It doesn't talk about pandemics because it does not win votes and there is little it can do except contribute to a world-wide effort to monitor infections and MAINTAIN a stockpile of PPE, drugs and so on to ensure that it has the best chance of protecting the pubic should the hitherto unnewsworthy pandemic strike. Only idiots would argue that maintaining stocks of protective equipment is not in the best interests of the country. 

3) The government HAS failed in its duties. It is well reported that the stockpile of PPE was mismanaged in 2017. 

4) Come'on if you think you're 'ard enough. That's just playground talk. Stand for election? Really? If you think that MPs make all the decisions based on sticking their fingers in the air or "gut feelings" rather than supposedly reacting to the reports of experts and advisers, well.....

Sorry, but that post beggars belief. 

  

 

[Oddfellow]

56 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

One fact for sure the world  has never seen anything like this before.I for one hope we never go through this again. There are and will be much to learn from this in future. Has any country got every thing right?I doubt it.Once we come out of this.Then is the time to see what could have been done better.

You may not have been around for Spanish Flu, the Plague and so on, but the world has seen pandemics like this before. There are constant similarities made with Spanish Flu, particularly in the states where it really hit hard. 

Getting it right takes courage which is something our lot lack. They only do the right thing when the wrong thing blows up in their faces. 

 

[rightsaidfred]

24 minutes ago, Ray said:

Everyone who seeks or takes on responsibility should be ready to demonstrate that they have taken either the right steps, the only steps, the best advice on steps and timely steps. Standing back and saying in effect "if you think you can do better then you try it" doesn't begin to equate to accountability, If everyone has to be an expert in everything before they are able to investigate, enquire or criticise no justice would ever prevail.

If you want the job where the buck stops be prepared for the buck!

Duty of care including providing adequate  equipment lies with the employer including privately run care homes, transport for London stops with the Mayor not where he wants to pass the buck, I am sure this also applies to other cities or local authorities, while the NHS  is funded by the government its day to day running is done by civil servants and we all know what happens when you question their abilities, before we start looking for scapegoats lets look at everybodys  responsabities including those individuals and businesses flouting the recomendations.

Fred

[ExSurveyor]

9 minutes ago, Wonderwall said:

Genuinely interested here.

Do you watch our leaders react to this pandemic and think it's a decent response , with good leadership, acting on the front foot from the get go?

Do you think it is acceptable that months into this , we cannot even supply the front line workers with appropriate , basic PPE.

It hasn't been perfect but it never will be.

No country has had enough PPE, Sweden hasn't locked down, USA has different rules all over the place, China has not be honest about the number of deaths.

On the whole I believe our government has reacted as best as it was able to, given that the whole world suddenly needed PPE at the same time.

The immediate introduction of massive financial packages for the employed, the self employed and small businesses is unprecedented.

From a standing start, to where we are now is no mean feat. The shouts of mixed messages are from the media who are trying to second guess what the government will announce, before they announce it.

The complete idiots who insist they must go to the park or beach to have a picnic are undermining the efforts of everyone else,

So given these limitations, yes I think they are doing the best they can.

[Oddfellow]

52 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

When a company charges up to £60,000 a year for care they should be making contingency plans as well.

Why is this kind of thing not written into their licences to operate? 

[ExSurveyor]

2 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Why is this kind of thing not written into their licences to operate? 

I doubt that you have it as a requirement to operate, I know I don't ( except in relation to hazardous materials. As private businesses we undertake our own planning. If I understock PPE I won't get a delivery from anyone unless I pay through the nose, hence, amongst other factors, I closed down.

[Oddfellow]

3 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

So given these limitations, yes I think they are doing the best they can.

Certainly, they would like you to think that. 

The problem is that you're probably now part of the spin machine. 

There is little doubt that had anybody else won the last election that the situation would be massively improved over now, but it is hard to ignore Johnson's address in Greenwich in February telling the world that the UK would take it on the chin and keep the economy going. That wasn't a leader talking, that was a man who's beholden to the support of companies that stand to lose massively in an economic downturn. We can't ignore the previous 10 years of under funding that lead to this - we must not ignore it. We must not also ignore the opportunity that this has brought to increase surveillance, water down planning regulations, strengthen police powers, avoid scrutiny and so on.  

Little will be as it appears, you can be sure of that. 

 

[Wonderwall]

6 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

It hasn't been perfect but it never will be.

No country has had enough PPE, Sweden hasn't locked down, USA has different rules all over the place, China has not be honest about the number of deaths.

On the whole I believe our government has reacted as best as it was able to, given that the whole world suddenly needed PPE at the same time.

The immediate introduction of massive financial packages for the employed, the self employed and small businesses is unprecedented.

From a standing start, to where we are now is no mean feat. The shouts of mixed messages are from the media who are trying to second guess what the government will announce, before they announce it.

The complete idiots who insist they must go to the park or beach to have a picnic are undermining the efforts of everyone else,

So given these limitations, yes I think they are doing the best they can.

Worryingly, how backward are we in a manufacturing sense, that we can't  knock up a few masks and overalls, gloves and sanitizer for ourselves?

We are good at making sandwiches though.

[Poppy]

2 minutes ago, Wonderwall said:

Worryingly, how backward are we in a manufacturing sense, that we can't  knock up a few masks and overalls, gloves and sanitizer for ourselves?

We are good at making sandwiches though.

We offshored our manufacturing years ago. Financial services are leaving now - those that haven't already that is.

[marshman]

This is ridiculous - we now have experts pretending they know how to run a care home, run a country, comment (wrongly) on the testing, and worst of all pronouncing on the availability of PPE and death rates as well!!! Oh and the economy!!

Lets leave these patently ridiculous comments and observations coming out now to the real experts and concentrate on the Broads and just bashing the BA!

[OldBerkshireBoy]

Politics is a dirty game, now if as alleged  the USA flexed it`s $ muscles and had PPE destined for Germany diverted to themselves then who is to say what other things have been going on that we will never hear about. Who amongst the public really knows when our goverment tried to place orders for the PPE, to whom and what response did they get. Was it no problem, we will help or could it of been politely worded as sorry but you are at the bottom of the list and we may decide to help fellow EU states first. One thing I do recall was the press saying that the UK never joined the EU scheme to bulk order then it turned out that not single piece of PPE had been delivered from this bulk order scheme anyway so as always the press and the media are still mud slinging all to sell newspapers and advertising space. 

Could the goverment have done better? Yes but so could every other european country.

[Oddfellow]

5 minutes ago, marshman said:

Lets leave these patently ridiculous comments and observations coming out now to the real experts and concentrate on the Broads and just bashing the BA!

It's a shame that the real experts aren't being listened to........ 

 

And yes, you could probably always do better. The issue is more about how bad it got and why.