Coronavirus And The Broads

[ExSurveyor]

That is a press release for the sake of it.

 

[grendel]

basically they are all saying they dont know until Boris announces something.

[Smoggy]

Whatever is announced I will be checking my boat tuesday, I have to drive a 180 mile round trip for a work job taking me to norwich so I'm not going to miss a chance like that to check the bilge and batteries, before anyone starts I won't be taking it out or working on it other than maybe swapping batteries over and have contacted the marina to check they are happy with me doing it.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

At tonights tv update it was clear that the papers were getting ahead of themselves thinking that elements of the lockdown will be lifted Monday morning.

A road map is a plan of action to come in the upcoming months. One little step at a time please.

[Poppy]

On 07/05/2020 at 10:06, ChrisB said:

This is what is needed.

The business model of flying half empty planes will not work. Planes need to be full of people who have been tested and confirmed as non- contagious. So the passengers and crew fly in the knowledge it is safe to do so and the plane has a fighting chance of paying it's way.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52594023

QWhy did we not introduce this from the outset ? Other countries did.  And why are we waiting for three weeks to introduce this measure  ?

 

[floydraser]

On 07/05/2020 at 20:55, OldBerkshireBoy said:

At tonights tv update it was clear that the papers were getting ahead of themselves thinking that elements of the lockdown will be lifted Monday morning.

A road map is a plan of action to come in the upcoming months. One little step at a time please.

And that has encouraged a more relaxed approach to social distance for the VE street parties from what I have seen. I wouldn't be surprised to see the infection rate to climb as a result. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

On tv they were at pains to say people  were in family groups. That's why some were close together. We will see in a few weeks time.Its very concerning in care homes.There it seems to account for half the death rate. Something is wrong. 

[vanessan]

35 minutes ago, Poppy said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52594023

QWhy did we not introduce this from the outset ? Other countries did.  And why are we waiting for three weeks to introduce this measure  ?

 

Exactly what I asked myself when I read it. It just beggars belief that we seem to be playing ‘catch-up’ all the time. As for the pantomime over that PPE stuff coming from Turkey, I couldn’t believe it when I read that it was made by a t-shirt manufacturer who neglected to get an export licence! I am beginning to think that an enquiry is going to be needed after all this is over, not to point any fingers but to make sure we don’t get in this sort of situation in the future. 

[Ray]

9 minutes ago, vanessan said:

Exactly what I asked myself when I read it. It just beggars belief that we seem to be playing ‘catch-up’ all the time. As for the pantomime over that PPE stuff coming from Turkey, I couldn’t believe it when I read that it was made by a t-shirt manufacturer who neglected to get an export licence! I am beginning to think that an enquiry is going to be needed after all this is over, not to point any fingers but to make sure we don’t get in this sort of situation in the future. 

There have been exercises and reports about this kind of situation for years, personally I think that when it's all over there should be an enquiry that includes finger pointing! It won't happen of course, nothing ever sticks where it belongs, there is no accountability.

[Meantime]

1 hour ago, Poppy said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52594023

QWhy did we not introduce this from the outset ? Other countries did.  And why are we waiting for three weeks to introduce this measure  ?

 

Being an island nation we have more challenges than other countries with getting supplies across our border. Introducing any sort of system takes time and effectively there are few passengers flying at the moment and those that do are entering a country in lock down so will effectively be stuck at home or quarantined anyway. Bringing the measures in, in three weeks time gives them time to put systems in place to manage it and also means it is happening at a time when hopefully some of the lock down measures have been eased, or are about to be eased.

But if you think about it logically do you really think quarantining is the answer? Like a lot of things it sounds like a logical step until you think about the realities.

How's it going to work? You have to stay in a private residence for 14 days. That's fine then, what about the other people in that house? Are they then in quarantine or able to go about their normal business? What if I'm a visitor and do not have a private residence to stay in? Who's going to check that I have stayed at home? How are they going to manage that? So we employ an army of inspectors to call at random on people's houses. Will they be as effective as TV license inspectors who have no right of entry into your home. You get reported for not being at home, Oh sorry I was asleep when you called. Maybe we need tagging or an app to monitor your location. What about human rights and data protection and so it goes on and on. The quarantine system will be no more than lip service and rely on the consent of people for it to work.

For those that do take it seriously it effectively signals the death knell for the airline industry, so be prepared for those short life products flown in with passenger jets to double and triple in price. Not just food but essential medical supplies as well.

The real answer is an agreed standard of industry wide pre flight boarding screening to test for the virus.

But be in no doubt that even if it costs lives and it will, the governments will have to take actions to ease restrictions and get life and the economy moving again. The virus hasn't gone away they are only looking at managing the rate of infection, not stopping it until there is a vaccine. Easing of restrictions does not mean you are safe to take advantage of the easement and that you won't catch the virus. It just means there is enough capacity within the NHS and enough ICU beds to treat you should you catch it. The only way to stay safe is to stay indoors even when the restrictions are eased or lifted.

To be clear I'm referring to Norwich airport when talking about flight and airport quarantining just to ensure we stay on the topic of this thread.   

[MauriceMynah]

1 hour ago, Poppy said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52594023

QWhy did we not introduce this from the outset ? Other countries did.  And why are we waiting for three weeks to introduce this measure  ?

Perhaps because the measures that are in place now, are more appropriate?

 

46 minutes ago, floydraser said:

And that has encouraged a more relaxed approach to social distance for the VE street parties from what I have seen. I wouldn't be surprised to see the infection rate to climb as a result. 

Neither would I.

 

15 minutes ago, Ray said:

I think that when it's all over there should be an enquiry that includes finger pointing!

What would that achieve? 

 

Make no mistake, when this is over, there will be enough finger pointing, more than enough people being wise after the event and loads of people trying to score "party political" points.

The government has made it clear time and time again that it is reacting to "the science". Note, "reacting". this by it's nature cannot be "proactive" it is "reactive".

It also seems to me that those who questioned the "erosion of freedoms" now seem to be questioning why those erosions are so delayed and behind other countries eroding them.  

[Poppy]

It would seem that (according to the Health secretary on 16th April) there were around 15,000 arrivals in UK airports daily - few of them having undergone checks on departure !

I shed no  more tears for the airline industry than I do for all others affected by this pandemic.  If some short life products s flown in with passenger jets  double in price, so be it. They will be luxuries in the main anyhow. 

As for essential medical supplies, have no doubt that provision will be made on cargo flight for those along with any other things deemed essential.

[marshman]

I am so glad that that on this specialised Broads Forum how many experts exist on the issues surrounding immunology  and the spread of infectious diseases,  and the such like based on what they have read from other experts!   And how many want to apportion blame for something or other and want to talk about accountability - when in reality they cannot have the facts about the issues they are discussing - not even the actual death rate will not be able to be assessed over and above the normal yearly average until about 5 years time at best!

Lets concentrate on the Broads and talk about something we actually know a bit about with some accuracy than engage in speculation garnered straight from the pages of Facebook and the Press - oh and Donald Trump!!!!

[Meantime]

22 minutes ago, Poppy said:

It would seem that (according to the Health secretary on 16th April) there were around 15,000 arrivals in UK airports daily - few of them having undergone checks on departure !

I shed no  more tears for the airline industry than I do for all others affected by this pandemic.  If some short life products s flown in with passenger jets  double in price, so be it. They will be luxuries in the main anyhow. 

As for essential medical supplies, have no doubt that provision will be made on cargo flight for those along with any other things deemed essential.

With the majority of them being British people being repatriated back into the country. Would you expect them to stay stranded where they were, or would you expect them to fly home and into a country already in lock down and therefore being told they need to quarantine at home for 14 days seems a bit pointless if they follow the lock down advice already in place.

Way more cargo arrives in this country in passenger planes than it does in cargo only planes.

[Ray]

42 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Make no mistake, when this is over, there will be enough finger pointing, more than enough people being wise after the event and loads of people trying to score "party political" points.

What concerns me is the ample evidence that government (any and every government, no party politics here) had scientific evidence and ample opportunity to be wise "before" the event.

[Poppy]

13 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

With the majority of them being British people being repatriated back into the country. Would you expect them to stay stranded where they were, or would you expect them to fly home and into a country already in lock down and therefore being told they need to quarantine at home for 14 days seems a bit pointless if they follow the lock down advice already in place.

Way more cargo arrives in this country in passenger planes than it does in cargo only planes.

Not at all. However with no checks being carried out on arrival in this country .... I'll ask you, should there be controls - or none , because "Way more cargo arrives in this country in passenger planes than it does in cargo only planes." ?

[Ray]

27 minutes ago, marshman said:

I am so glad that that on this specialised Broads Forum how many experts exist on the issues surrounding immunology  and the spread of infectious diseases,  and the such like based on what they have read from other experts!  

It's also comforting to know we have such experts on all our combined knowledge and experiences outside the broads that the whole lot can be labelled uninformed and dismissed  

[marshman]

The issue, with testing, that everyone cannot take on board, is that it is only of value if the person actually has it at that time - if they are merely incubating the disease it won't show! If they go home and self isolate, and only get tested if they show symptoms, then the test is of value!!! Unfortunately they get advice from so many different experts with differing views, they are left with the situation that they have to make up their own minds, which is no different! 

Now where was  I? Back to masks (another stupid topic!! ) Oh no, back to the Broads where I might just have a clue!!

[MauriceMynah]

Ray, Be like me, miss out the middle-man.

I dismiss as uninformed everything I say, immediately before I've said it. It saves me a lot of time and means I agree with a lot of people I disagree with.

[JennyMorgan]

11 minutes ago, marshman said:

Oh no, back to the Broads where I might just have a clue!!

Sometimes we agree so you must have !

[rightsaidfred]

2 hours ago, Ray said:

There have been exercises and reports about this kind of situation for years, personally I think that when it's all over there should be an enquiry that includes finger pointing! It won't happen of course, nothing ever sticks where it belongs, there is no accountability.

The trouble with finger pointing is who  you are pointing it at, the Government may dictate policy but its the civil service who are responsible for the day to day administration and presumably procurement  so where do you lay any blame.

Fred

[MauriceMynah]

Yes Minister springs to mind with the confusion between the policy of administration and the administration of policy. But I suspect you know that :-) 

[Ray]

19 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

so where do you lay any blame

That's what the enquiry is for, perhaps different fingers need pointing in relation to different failings (if any are found)

[grendel]

5 hours ago, vanessan said:

As for the pantomime over that PPE stuff coming from Turkey

it does strike me that if the quality f the ppe had been suitable it would have been used in the country of manufacture, i was always wondering how such a large quantity of ppe was available.

[vanessan]

I think it was Sky News that reported a few days ago that a lot of the PPE put aside for ‘emergencies’ had gone out of date. Whether or not that is actually true I have no idea but it’s that sort of thing that needs to be looked at to ensure it doesn’t happen again. (I also read somewhere that a warning was given after an exercise in 2017 that the country was holding insufficient stocks of PPE anyway.)