Where Have All The Ducks Gone?

[Broads01]

This was a question my daughter asked when onboard with me last week. She's now 20 and has been coming with me since she was a baby. She recalls as a child, regularly feeding groups of ducks when onboard (and I remember this too along with plenty of coots around). I also remember ducks hitching a ride from time to time but this hasn't happened for many years. Now, wherever you're moored there seem to be swans sometimes but few other birds close to the boat. What's happened?

[NorfolkNog]

There's usually quite a few out in winter. They are probably more hungry then and certainly magically appear for Mrs Nog's corn. Coots seem to congregate in certain places, there's a bend in the river just downstream from Wroxham Broad and there's usually quite a few around there. I wonder if they keep a low profile when the rivers are busy? 

[Mouldy]

Many blame the otters, however if you look at Google Maps, particularly the satellite view, you’ll see the most rivers have flood defence dykes running alongside.  I personally wonder whether some of the resident water fowl have migrated across to them, out of the way of the main rivers and associated river traffic.

That said, there do seem to be areas where certain breeds seem to congregate, grebes on Malthouse Broad, swans on Hardley Flood etc. and there seems to be more herons around too.

My observations, but as ever, I stand to be corrected.

[JennyMorgan]

Perhaps predators in general have the upper hand on the Broads at the moment.

[CambridgeCabby]

On the new “lakes” by the mouth of the Ant you can often see large flocks of water fowl , I think Mouldy may be correct in his assumption .

[Chelsea14Ian]

When we hired from Silverline.Often our last afternoon/evening was spent  at Bramerton.There was perhaps 30 plus ducks. One used to limp,and we saw him for about three years.Not so many there now.There is a little  family of ducks at cove,but yes numbers of ducks seemed to have decreased over the last few years.

[riverman]

Just my opinion (and most people who also work on the broads), Otters. I'm often near plenty of soak dykes and I very rarely see many waterfowl on them outside of Swans. You hardly see a Coot or a Moorhen, and I regularly watch ducklings seemingly disappear day by day. However I see plenty of Otters, which considering there place in the food chain, concerns me. Surely seeing them should be a rarity? I would also argue to a lesser extent, Egyptian Geese. An unnecessarily aggressive bird which I've watched attack many a small duckling.

[CambridgeCabby]

42 minutes ago, riverman said:

Just my opinion (and most people who also work on the broads), Otters. I'm often near plenty of soak dykes and I very rarely see many waterfowl on them outside of Swans. You hardly see a Coot or a Moorhen, and I regularly watch ducklings seemingly disappear day by day. However I see plenty of Otters, which considering there place in the food chain, concerns me. Surely seeing them should be a rarity? I would also argue to a lesser extent, Egyptian Geese. An unnecessarily aggressive bird which I've watched attack many a small duckling.

So , once again the interference and mismanagement  of man  ( and woman) in reintroducing a top predator to an area results in the decimation of other wildlife .

How long I wonder, before there is a need to cull the rapidly expanding otter population , which will no doubt be opposed by the seemingly professional protest at everything brigade that plagues our everyday lives .

[batrabill]

5 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

So , once again the interference and mismanagement  of man  ( and woman) in reintroducing a top predator to an area results in the decimation of other wildlife .

How long I wonder, before there is a need to cull the rapidly expanding otter population , which will no doubt be opposed by the seemingly professional protest at everything brigade that plagues our everyday lives .

Where is the evidence that this is true ??

[Vaughan]

I think the swans are probably too big for the nice playful, cuddly little otters to eat. Swans are very aggressive in defence of their young and have the habit of carrying the new-born cygnets on their backs, between their wings. Other water birds like ducks, moorhens and coots have no such defence. Young ducklings have always been taken by pike, but not in numbers large enough to endanger the species.

I do agree about the Egyptian Geese though! Back in the 50s when they were rare on the Broads, my mother reared a couple of Egyptian Goose eggs under a broody hen, so that we could have some on the river in Thorpe. They hatched normally and all went well, until they grew big enough to eat the hen!

[CambridgeCabby]

1 hour ago, batrabill said:

Where is the evidence that this is true ??

If , as seems , the general consensus is, that the otters have caused the vastly reduced levels of ducks, and other wild fowl and these otters we know were reintroduced by man to The Broads then ergo the change in the ecological balance was man made .

Otters, having no natural predators , population has grown rapidly since they were reintroduced as is evident by the numbers seen today , and will continue to grow without yet again intervention by mankind.

History has shown that any move to cull or even manage numbers of a wild mammal results in action being taken by various groups of individuals , and these are often seen to be the same protestors that seem (IMO) to make an occupation of supporting one cause or another on an almost weekly basis.

As far as definite proof that my concerns are true is concerned , then I agree it is based on conjecture and would gladly listen to proof that I am incorrect 

[Vaughan]

Otters died out on the Broads as well as all other waterways in England, because of water polluted by phosphates and nitrates. Likewise the lilies, which dis-appeared in the late 60s.

Now that we have good water quality again, the lilies are back and so are the otters.

They used to hunt otters using otter hounds.  Now there's a good thing to suggest to the "save our badgers" brigade!   

[ChrisB]

There are actually four apex predators found within the Wetlands of Norfolk who significantly do not prey on each other. In addition to the Otter you have a large resident population of Marsh Harriers who take young Waterfowl, there are loads of foxes and the upper Bure and Ant have American Mink.

I inspected two supposed Otter attacks where I live, a Kingfisher nest dug out and a flight pond cleared of duck and as soon as you came near the smell told you it was Mink not Otter.

Ducks hiding in the soak drains etc, I am afraid does not really stand closer inspection. The duck that people talk about, that used to chase boats for bread that they do not see anymore is the Mallard. A friendly species that inhabits ponds and park lakes, loves being fed it will not hide away. Ludham bridge "pool" used to be full of them.

[ChrisB]

There is another reason also why things are different, but outside the boating season, and that is our much warmer, wetter Winters are having an effect on migration patterns.

[Vaughan]

Perhaps also worth remembering that duck in their natural element (which is not on the quay at Ranworth Maltsters) are nocturnal.

[Bytheriver]

If they have any sense they will be hiding from those who shoot them - the season started on 1st Sept Saturday at around dawn seems the most popular time. Incidentally I have noticed that a few late broods were more successful & they are only just starting to moult into adult plumage.. 

One bird that has diminished on the Broads in the past few years is the cormorant - maybe with improved fish stocks at sea they have returned its usual haunts

[Vaughan]

16 minutes ago, Bytheriver said:

the season started on 1st Sept Saturday at around dawn seems the most popular time.

Since in the evening they fly to the ponds where they feed at night and in the dawn they fly back to where they rest up in the day.

So a "morning flight" or an "evening flight" is the best time to shoot them.

Hence  "Morning Flight" is the name of the boat that I grew up on.

[JennyMorgan]

I talk to a local wildlife reserve manager, as well as using my own experiences,  and we have both seen fox, otters and mink taking eggs from nesting birds. We have both witnessed carrion, not least Harriers taking both eggs and fledgling. I have watched Marsh harriers decimate a field of ground nesting birds on more than one occasion.

[Cheesey69]

What must be considered is that The Broads is no way natural.

After reading the many interesting posts in the archeology section plus history and personal memories the only conclusion you can draw is that humans must regulate and control the area.

Whole courses of rivers have been made or straighten out to suit. I was amazed to find out that the bit that goes in front of the Abbey was in fact, man made.

Trees growing right up to the bank? Not back in the day.

Its like we are talking about the landscaping around the M25   

Reminds me of the time we aggressively cut down the the trees on the side of the rail tracks. Got a letter complaining about the wholesale destruction of habitat until it was pointed out that in the days of steam, no growth was allowed due to fire risk and in fact , teams were employed to keep the sides bare of growth.

   

[Vaughan]

4 minutes ago, Cheesey69 said:

in the days of steam, no growth was allowed due to fire risk and in fact , teams were employed to keep the sides bare of growth.

Which is why they never suffered from the "wrong kind of leaves" on the line, as there were no trees!

The banks of the Yare were kept clear of trees also, to give the wherries a clear wind to sail up to Norwich.

[MauriceMynah]

Just a quick question, 

If id is decided by the "powers that be",  that the re-introduction of the otter was a mistake, will there be another Coypu story?

Another question I have is.

Why is the American mink not removed as a non indigenous species?

Oh, and just one for luck.

As above but for the Egyptian Goose.

[grendel]

I think they have all gone under Ludham Bridge.  

[Vaughan]

Remember in "The Navy Lark"?

"Everybody down!"

[Timbo]

3 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Remember in "The Navy Lark"?

"Everybody down!"

'Left hand down a bit'.

[Vaughan]

Getting back to the subject of otters I think Philip Wayre has rather a lot to answer for, right now.  Not someone whose attitude I ever liked, whenever I met him.

"Ring of Bright Water" may have been romantically emotional - as was "Bambi" - but the harsh reality is rather different.

Edited to add that the otter, like the fox, also has the instinct to kill for the sake of killing; not just for feeding.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Vaughan
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