Breydon Water Catches People Out Again!

[MY littleboat]

19 hours ago, ExSurveyor said:

It appears from reports that the rescue vessel has had to be rescued by Hemsby lifeboat after getting its prop fouled.

 

A bit like the RNLI rescuing the RNLI at the Deben Bar - however, it was more of a plan A hadn't worked and Plan B is on standby and time is running on and so lets move to Plan C or D - That is all part of working around the JESIP wheel!

[MY littleboat]

3 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

I wouldn't fancy trying, I would imagine getting to shore would take a huge amount of effort. 

And INCREDIBLY dangerous - it is never an option, get stuck, no one can get to you and the tide turns - not even a consideration!

[andyg]

1 hour ago, MY littleboat said:

Very serious question and point you raise here and one that has definitely kept me pondering....are the Broads deep enough that your giraffe needs a life jacket, or will it have the neck to stick two hoof-fingers up and be able to nonchalantly just wade out?

We use to walk out on the mud flats at leigh on sea when we were kids. Bloody hard going then, couldn't do it now lol..

[RumPunch]

17 minutes ago, andyg said:

We use to walk out on the mud flats at leigh on sea when we were kids. Bloody hard going then, couldn't do it now lol..

Now that brings back memories..........

[andyg]

41 minutes ago, RumPunch said:

Now that brings back memories..........

My daughters and there children do it now, I politely decline to join them. Il find a nice spot on the wall and enjoy a pint whilst keeping an eye on them. 

[Bikertov]

2 hours ago, Meantime said:

I think that's a bit of a harsh statement. The pro's EMS know where the channel is and were only outside the channel to rescue a stranded boat. Every rescue carries a risk. That's why everything should be done to minimise the number of rescues needed.

Sorry - don't get me wrong, it was just a statement of fact and not a criticism or slight in any way whatsoever.

Of course what they did and where they went (out of the channel) was only to rescue a boat, and yes there is a calculated risk in that.

What I meant was that with all their skills and knowledge of the area, things can still go awry, so boat owners and renters need to be even more aware.

[HemsbyPie]

3 hours ago, MY littleboat said:

And INCREDIBLY dangerous - it is never an option, get stuck, no one can get to you and the tide turns - not even a consideration!

What agency you with mate?

[RS2021]

I know SARA (Severn Area Rescue Association) have had a hovercraft for rescue on mud flats. Not sure if they still have. Could be an option for Breydon.

[andyg]

14 minutes ago, RS2021 said:

I know SARA (Severn Area Rescue Association) have had a hovercraft for rescue on mud flats. Not sure if they still have. Could be an option for Breydon.

I believe the RNLI still have there one at the pier in Southend. It's surprising how many ppl get caught out by the tides whilst out on the mud flats. 

[Smoggy]

A small hovercraft would probably cost less than the fuel for that helicopter in one rescue, with a hovercraft if you only transfer one at a time it doesn't matter as there's less time restraint, a falling tide won't matter as the recieving boat could still be in the channel.

[YnysMon]

1 hour ago, andyg said:

I believe the RNLI still have there one at the pier in Southend. It's surprising how many ppl get caught out by the tides whilst out on the mud flats. 

They’ve also got one at Hoylake on the tip of the Wirral peninsula for use on mud/sand flats. 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

1 hour ago, Smoggy said:

A small hovercraft would probably cost less than the fuel for that helicopter in one rescue, with a hovercraft if you only transfer one at a time it doesn't matter as there's less time restraint, a falling tide won't matter as the recieving boat could still be in the channel.

Could the small hovercraft make a crossing or might it need air lifting in Thunderbirds style. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

If a hovercraft is a option. Who would  operate  it RNLI or a independent?

[YnysMon]

Just now, Chelsea14Ian said:

If a hovercraft is a option. Who would  operate  it RNLI or a independent?

The Hoylake one is RNLI, as it featured in at least a couple of the ‘Rescue at Sea’ series. In one, they rescued a horse at had got stuck. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

Yes saw that the other week.The thing is the RNLI pulled there boat from the broads  some years back.Hemsby cover the broads and the sea.Hemsby is one of about 150 independent Lifeboat  stations around vthe country. 

[Vaughan]

22 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Could the small hovercraft make a crossing or might it need air lifting in Thunderbirds style. 

They could always keep in on the slip at Somerleyton.

Where it was invented.

[oldgregg]

It does seem a hovercraft would make a lot of sense for Breydon.

Airlifting people off a Broads cruiser with a search and rescue helicopter is just ridiculous.

[ChrisB]

The RNLI have rescue hovercraft at Hoylake...Hunstanton...Morcombe and Southend. The areas where there are a huge expanse of tidal mud-flats, too shallow for boats, too soft for rescue 4x4s.

Here is our Norfolk one at Sunset.

[ranworthbreeze]

Maybe the way to go would be to replace all the missing posts and then fit some form of reinforced netting down each side of the corridor to stop any boats getting pass the posts onto the mud flats.

 

[grendel]

on the thames during the olympics they had a line of bouys strung together totally closing off access to one ban, these went for several miles as I recall, so you could string a line of small green  and a line of small red bouys between posts i guess.

[andyg]

11 hours ago, ChrisB said:

The RNLI have rescue hovercraft at Hoylake...Hunstanton...Morcombe and Southend. The areas where there are a huge expanse of tidal mud-flats, too shallow for boats, too soft for rescue 4x4s.

Here is our Norfolk one at Sunset.

Same as the one we have here stationed at southend pier..covers the mud flats all along the the Thames towards London. 

[Meantime]

37 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Maybe the way to go would be to replace all the missing posts and then fit some form of reinforced netting down each side of the corridor to stop any boats getting pass the posts onto the mud flats.

 

Apart from the sheer cost, I can imagine the RSPB having something to say about it, never mind the way it would change the aesthetic of the area.

Lets please remember that Breydon Water is enjoyed by the many people who walk or jog along either side, who enjoy the open scenery, who go there to bird watch or paint or take pictures. Breydon is much more than just boating.

It was John Cressey who placed signs on the posts near the bottom end of Breydon to direct boats into the channel. These proved to dramatically reduce the number of grounding on Breydon. They were deemed such a good idea that eventually the BA put some more permanent ones on the posts. It is in that same area that the missing posts are now causing issues I believe. The answer therefore has to be to replace those posts as soon as possible and increase the signage. Perhaps use a VERY temporary set of buoys strung together to close the gap.

Lets remember that the BA wanted to take over control of Breydon Water. IF a proper annual check was carried out of all the posts and their condition and any that were deemed to be near end of life replaced there should be no missing posts apart from the odd one or two that maybe get knocked over. Although if properly installed and in good condition it should be difficult to knock one over. A missing post should be a rare occurrence. Currently there is two or three missing all next to each other in an area that is notorious for boats going the wrong way.

Surely it is not beyond the capabilities of the BA and rescue authorities to plot where each grounding takes place and then to increase the number of posts and signs in those such areas.

Another common area used to be coming down the Yare past the Berney Arms, boats carrying straight on towards where there used to be a pub, which never had water access, but many tried. New signage there has improved the situation there over the last year or two.

Finally the last bit has to be about education, especially of hirers. Lets face it, whilst it is not unknown for private boats to stray outside the channel, it is far more common for hire boaters. Perhaps it needs to be a standard part of the handover that the hirer is asked whether they want to cross Breydon or not. If the answer is yes they get an extra bit of tuition and a copy of the tide tables and a temporary permit that acknowledges they have had the extra tuition and understand the albeit minimal, but extra risk of crossing Breydon. Anyone crossing Breydon without the permit pays the cost of any recovery. In fact why not put a 2 or 3 page crossing Breydon Water leaflet and a copy of the current tide tables on the BA tolls website and ask toll payers to tick a declaration that they have downloaded and read it as a part of the tolls renewal process in the same way as the insurance declaration, that would then cover all the privateers as well. 

[FlyingFortress]

30 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Apart from the sheer cost, I can imagine the RSPB having something to say about it, never mind the way it would change the aesthetic of the area.

Lets please remember that Breydon Water is enjoyed by the many people who walk or jog along either side, who enjoy the open scenery, who go there to bird watch or paint or take pictures. Breydon is much more than just boating.

It was John Cressey who placed signs on the posts near the bottom end of Breydon to direct boats into the channel. These proved to dramatically reduce the number of grounding on Breydon. They were deemed such a good idea that eventually the BA put some more permanent ones on the posts. It is in that same area that the missing posts are now causing issues I believe. The answer therefore has to be to replace those posts as soon as possible and increase the signage. Perhaps use a VERY temporary set of buoys strung together to close the gap.

Lets remember that the BA wanted to take over control of Breydon Water. IF a proper annual check was carried out of all the posts and their condition and any that were deemed to be near end of life replaced there should be no missing posts apart from the odd one or two that maybe get knocked over. Although if properly installed and in good condition it should be difficult to knock one over. A missing post should be a rare occurrence. Currently there is two or three missing all next to each other in an area that is notorious for boats going the wrong way.

Surely it is not beyond the capabilities of the BA and rescue authorities to plot where each grounding takes place and then to increase the number of posts and signs in those such areas.

Another common area used to be coming down the Yare past the Berney Arms, boats carrying straight on towards where there used to be a pub, which never had water access, but many tried. New signage there has improved the situation there over the last year or two.

Finally the last bit has to be about education, especially of hirers. Lets face it, whilst it is not unknown for private boats to stray outside the channel, it is far more common for hire boaters. Perhaps it needs to be a standard part of the handover that the hirer is asked whether they want to cross Breydon or not. If the answer is yes they get an extra bit of tuition and a copy of the tide tables and a temporary permit that acknowledges they have had the extra tuition and understand the albeit minimal, but extra risk of crossing Breydon. Anyone crossing Breydon without the permit pays the cost of any recovery. In fact why not put a 2 or 3 page crossing Breydon Water leaflet and a copy of the current tide tables on the BA tolls website and ask toll payers to tick a declaration that they have downloaded and read it as a part of the tolls renewal process in the same way as the insurance declaration, that would then cover all the privateers as well. 

Bit radical that K 

Applying modern Risk based management practices to The Broads Industry 

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

Bit radical that K 

Applying modern Risk based management practices to The Broads Industry 

We can but dream!!

[Vaughan]

37 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Perhaps it needs to be a standard part of the handover that the hirer is asked whether they want to cross Breydon or not. If the answer is yes they get an extra bit of tuition and a copy of the tide tables and a temporary permit that acknowledges they have had the extra tuition and understand the albeit minimal, but extra risk of crossing Breydon. Anyone crossing Breydon without the permit pays the cost of any recovery. In fact why not put a 2 or 3 page crossing Breydon Water leaflet and a copy of the current tide tables on the BA tolls website and ask toll payers to tick a declaration that they have downloaded and read it as a part of the tolls renewal process in the same way as the insurance declaration, that would then cover all the privateers as well. 

Good grief.

How have we ever managed, without all this "risk based management", for the last 100 years in Broads boat hiring?

I asked this question on page one of this thread and I ask it again here : How many people have been killed or injured as a result of grounding on Breydon?

In living memory?