How Busy Can It Get?

[Smoggy]

7 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Oh and a long way from a pub.

Must be detox time.

[MauriceMynah]

On a different subject,  I've just stopped screaming at the TV.

I have to be careful how I phrase this given our younger member. 

I'm watching 'Breakfast' on Auntie Beeb, where within an article one guest was guilty of using a naughty phrase. This error was mentioned twice, my problem was that I wouldn't have considered the phrase to be particularly naughty. My screaming was generally saying "Oh come off it, it wasn't THAT naughty". 

The expression used is sometimes quoted as "Extracting the urine". 

Never having had kids, nor ever being in particularly close contact with them for extended periods I find myself wondering if it's me who's out of step. This leaves me asking just what is, and what is not acceptable language when in front of children.

Obviously there are profanities that we all know, but what about the lower levels? I remember as a 10ish year old reading in my comic a man saying "good grief" and subsequently being chastised for using the expression myself. 

OK age is a factor but I do get concerned, worrying about who is being protected from what. Are we becoming over sanitised, over protective and over zealous. 

My own rule has always been not to say in front of children things that I wouldn't say in front of a lady. I suppose that's somewhat sexist, but there you are, where are you!

[MauriceMynah]

I must just say that whilst I was getting up a few minutes ago,  the presenters just used the term "good grief".

[Gracie]

I don't use swear words in everyday conversation, I have been raised proper. I would never swear at my children like I have heard some parents in the street, supermarket etc, it makes my blood run cold.

I may have stepped on a Lego brick and let out an expletive much to my children's surprise but then I will sit and explain to them that sometimes, especially when one has stepped on a Lego brick that should have been put away in the first place, it helps to relieve the pain and stress.

However, I have learned from experience it is not a good thing to swear in front of your children either, whatever excuse you may have. When my Charlie stubbed his toe he let out the very same expletive I used when I stood on the Lego brick.

After explaining to him what a very bad word that is to use, the cheeky beggar informs me he was just relieving the pain and stress 

Grace x

[dom]

2 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Obviously there are profanities that we all know, but what about the lower levels? I remember as a 10ish year old reading in my comic a man saying "good grief" and subsequently being chastised for using the expression myself.

My maternal grandparents were very religious. I can remember being in the car with my grandmother when I was in my very early teens and muttering "god, look at that" or similar thinking it was a fairly benign phrase and her doing an emergency stop in order to berate me for "taking the lord's name in vain".

Quote

My own rule has always been not to say in front of children things that I wouldn't say in front of a lady. I suppose that's somewhat sexist, but there you are, where are you!

I think that's probably the best, most civilised approach (including the supposedly sexist bit). It's probably a largely futile exercise though. If you look at some of the statistics online about young kids accessing adult content, it's common for kids with ages in single figures to have fairly unmonitored access to smart phones, so a few rude words are probably the least of the issues.

 

[Vaughan]

3 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

This leaves me asking just what is, and what is not acceptable language when in front of children.

I think I had learned all of my "dirty words" by the time I left prep school!   Especially the more anatomical ones, and apart from a few that were added later by the Army.

46 minutes ago, dom said:

to berate me for "taking the lord's name in vain".

Here is the difference between swearing - using naughty words for emphasis or even punctuation - and Blasphemy, which is religious.  Good Grief, for instance, should be written with capitals, as it refers to God.  Also Bloody, which is a shortening of "by our Lady" - who is the Virgin Mary.  "Blast" doesn't sound like much but it actually means God blast you.

I use naughty words sometimes (if the swear filter lets me) but only to add emphasis or perhaps allliteration, to a sentence.  They can be quite phonetic!

Trouble is nowadays, the goalposts are changing almost every week.  I remember getting hauled into our head office one day for an interview with "Human Resources" because I had referred to a party of company auditors who had turned up un-announced during a July Saturday turn-round day, as "you people".  Apparently, this is a serious insult these days.  I thought it was simply a grammatical plural!

Gawd 'elp us . . . .

[dom]

33 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I remember getting hauled into our head office one day for an interview with "Human Resources" because I had referred to a party of company auditors who had turned up un-announced during a July Saturday turn-round day, as "you people".  Apparently, this is a serious insult these days.  I thought it was simply a grammatical plural!

I'm a fully paid up member of the Stephen Fry school of thought* when it comes to offense. Probably largely because, as a kid, if we complained about insults, the response was always "Sticks and stones...", so you learnt to just get over it.

I find the current state of affairs tragically weak and whiny. I'll happily use a thumbs up emoji to acknowledge a text or similar message which doesn't really need a reply. Apparently, this  is now unacceptable to Gen-Z, who find it hostile and passive aggresive. At the age of 21, my grandfather was flying a Lancaster Bomber. How we've gone from that, to being offended by a small cartoon image which conveys positivity is beyond me - although I suspect the majority of the blame lies with the educational system.

I had religion drummed into me from an early age, but remain ambivalent about it all. If there is a God though, I find it hard to believe that they'd judge by words rather than actions.

* Last paragraph, "I saw hate in a graveyard" -- Stephen Fry, The Guardian, 5 June 2005

 

[Bikertov]

Considering how much of what we see on TV, in particular in soap operas, only a generation or two ago would have widely been considered "sinning" in a more religiously observant era - I don't get how people today can be so offended by use of certain words, "incorrect pronouns" etc 

Call me old fashioned if you want ...

[Gracie]

Biker....You're old fashioned  

Grace x

[addicted]

I get very fed up  with the amount of very bad language that pervades what passes for drama on tv,today. I often remark to Tony that if all the 4 letter words were removed from the average script, the programmes would probably be a good half hour shorter. It's mostly gratuitous and quite unnecessary adding nothing to the gravity of the script, rather, often detracting from it. Old fashioned I may be but often old fashioned in this instance is  vastly superior to new fashioned I think.

 

Carole

[Bikertov]

Mrs Bikertov watches a number of these Soaps and similar TV programmes ...

I usually know when this is because of all the shouting, screaming, swearing, arguments, assaults, violence, murders and other incidents - "if you have been affected by any of the events depicted, please visit www.Get-A-Life-This-Isn't-Real.tv.uk" etc - that I hear going on in the programmes.

Surely that is not what Real Life is like ?

Maybe I have lived a bit of a sheltered life until now, but I can't think I have ever experience any, let alone all, of these sorts of events in all my years. Let alone all of them in every single week ...

OK, I used to see a few scuffles and hear swearing at football matches back in the day, in the 80's. Probably one of the reasons I stopped going, as I thought it all quite unnecessary and pointless

 

[YnysMon]

4 hours ago, Bikertov said:

Mrs Bikertov watches a number of these Soaps and similar TV programmes ...

I usually know when this is because of all the shouting, screaming, swearing, arguments, assaults, violence, murders and other incidents - "if you have been affected by any of the events depicted, please visit www.Get-A-Life-This-Isn't-Real.tv.uk" etc - that I hear going on in the programmes.

Surely that is not what Real Life is like ?

Maybe I have lived a bit of a sheltered life until now, but I can't think I have ever experience any, let alone all, of these sorts of events in all my years. Let alone all of them in every single week ...

OK, I used to see a few scuffles and hear swearing at football matches back in the day, in the 80's. Probably one of the reasons I stopped going, as I thought it all quite unnecessary and pointless

 

My worry is that some impressionable people think this is how normal people live…hence the deterioration in behaviour generally. 

[BroadAmbition]

Being a Matelot - I can't comment &&&$$$%%££

Griff

[MauriceMynah]

Just to put it about...

[YnysMon]

I hope someone finds him. He lookes like a cutie.

[MauriceMynah]

This wonderful weather has caused me a small problem.  It has lead me to sit in the sunshine and ponder. This is never a good thing. The more frequent the libations, the more outrageous the pondering.

Reading the newspaper this afternoon I learn that our probable next Prime Minister has reached a decision as to what constitutes a male and what constitutes a female.  Not something I've ever had a problem with, but then I'm not a politician.

All this had me worrying.  I know that the idea of having a normal child is terrifying to the modern parent. The youngster now has to suffer from at least one of the following.  Autism, dyslexia, ADHT, or some other learning difficulty.  If not there has to be some other issue. Gender identity seems to be the latest hurdle to surmount. Personally I sometimes think that the normal child curses the fact that he or she isn't special.

Parents need to recognise that normality is a wonderful gift and to stop loading their children with burdens of incapacities.  Also, some children can quickly learn that some of these problems may be to their benefit. 

I had a friend who informed me that her youngest was dyslexic.  I soon worked out that the kid hated school and would struggle with such complicated sentences as "The cat sat on the mat" yet seemed to have no problem with the more standard reading of.. "To reach level 14 of this game you will have had to eliminate the troll who lives in the maze within the castle walls, found the map giving the location of the treasure, and to have disassembled the primary weapon of the Zogons "

The lads mother just said "Well, he's good at computer games."

When can we have some sense please?

 

I reckon I'm going to catch he'll for this.

[ExSurveyor]

MM, I understand where you are coming from, but, and it is a very big but.

When you and I were at school, Special Needs consisted of the remedial class, everyone lumped in together. That was a cruel and heartless policy that did nothing positive for those pupils.

Then we had 'progress'

My eldest son who is now 43 was eventually diagnosed as severely dyslexic. At age 9 his primary school had no specialist teaching, the headteacher thought dyslexic was a middle class parents excuse for a stupid child. They said he couldn't stay.

Eventually, after ambushing the Director of Education at a meeting we were told to find a specialist school and the County would pay.

We travelled across southern England and visited 6 schools out of area. They ranged from dreadful to awful. By chance I was surveying in Margate, next to a boarding school for dyslexia.  He started two weeks late. I can't describe the impact it had on all of us taking a 9 year old to boarding school every week. It was heartbreaking and it was the worst decision we have ever made.

He made his money by the age of 40 in property development, and now lives a quiet frugal life doing a bit of fitness training.

My second son was also diagnosed as dyslexic 4 years later. He was able to operate in a mainstream school as he had a very high IQ. He needed some adjustments to his teaching but struggled through. He is now a qualified surveyor.

They both survived the system but it certainly scarred them, the oldest one more so.

My granddaughter is about to take her exams at 16. We have been trying to get her dyslexia assessment completed for 6 years, finally, two weeks before her exams start it comes through. She will now be given extra time for each exam.

My grandson was finally diagnosed with severe anxiety, this took 4 years. We had a private assessment done two years ago but the school were reluctant to accept it in case we had caused bias. The Local Authority assessment, when it came was identical. He needs an Autistic Spectrum Diagnosis as it is clear he is on the autistic spectrum. This was started in year 4 at primary school. He is just finishing year 8. The first lot of paperwork was lost, the eventual conclusion sat on someone's desk for 14 months, then finally they decided he didn't have enough points to go further. This was without any trained professional seeing him. His Psychiatrist has now demanded he is assessed. The waiting list is over 2 years. At this rate he will also be leaving secondary school before they complete it.

His school is outstanding and are going above and beyond as they recognise his incredible potential. They make allowances for his start time to avoid crowded situations, if he is overwhelmed he knows he can go to the support unit. He is thriving despite the lack of support from the LEA.

The biggest problem is that parents are now quick to jump on the ADHD, Autism, Dyslexia, Mental Health bandwagon as an excuse for poor parenting and undisciplined children. This is swamping an already overstretched service and denying help to those who really need it.

All of a sudden it is fashionable for actor types to claim that they have been diagnosed in their late forties and fifties with ADHD and that helps them understand their lives. Really, they are successful, it hasn't held them back.

These spurious, latest fashion/ trends and claims by some parents and celebrities devalue the diagnosis for those children who are suffering and being held back in the education system.

I will admit that I struggle with the recent gender identity crisis despite having a niece who has fully transitioned to a nephew. This happened 10 years ago when they were 18 and he has had no second thoughts.

I worry that some rash decisions might be made.

My concern generally is that the rush to label everyone as having special needs as a cover for inadequate parenting will damage the chances of genuine students who need the limited services available.

It is a bit like A and E, they are swamped because everyone feels the need to go in for everything, parents no longer put a plaster on young Johnny themselves,  they demand that they see a doctor and have an x-ray. An ambulance is called for every minor ailment because it is easier than driving or getting a bus to hospital. Then we wonder why strokes and heart attacks have to wait for paramedics.

 

[BroadAmbition]

ADHD - Really?

This is a true story - I was there, it happened a few years ago

 

There is a cafe just outside of Walkeringham (Nr to Gainsborough) where I visit at lunchtimes if I'm working around that area.

Grandma in her fifties and her daughter (Mum) in her mid twenties work there.

One day I was sat having my lunch along with other customers whilst Grandma and daughter were having somewhat of a disagreement about the grandchild / young son which we could all hear, I've condensed it down somewhat

--------------------------

Grandma - You need to take charge of your son and show him some proper ground rules and discipline

Daughter - He can't help being naughty Mum, it's not his fault he has got ADHD

Grandma - Rowlocks - When I have your son / my grandson round to stay he is as good as gold because he knows the consequences if he misbehaves as he has found out to his cost before now. ADHD my 'derrière' (She used a shorter more common expression)

-------------------

There were about twenty of us in the cafe, Grandma got a round of applause  from the customers, Daughter got a red face and stormed off round the back into the kitchen 

Griff

 

[YnysMon]

Fully agree with Mark’s post.

My two struggled in primary school, and although they did get through to taking mostly reasonable GCSE grades, I think they would have done a lot better with more support early on. My younger son did get some classroom support, but my eldest didn’t, even though his teachers felt he needed it. The teachers were concerned that, even though he could demonstrate orally that he was absorbing information well and had an excellent reading speed for his age, he was very reluctant to write, so couldn’t demonstrate his learning ability.

There was one year when I went into school as an unofficial classroom assistant for him in the mornings. Luckily, I was then working part time and my manager agreed that I could start work at midday and work through until seven in the evening, instead of doing 9 to 3.

[MauriceMynah]

I too agree with Marks post, the biggest point for me is the "bandwagon" comment. 

Every parent is proud of their children,  and will, no doubt, have spent the first 4 years telling everyone just how clever their kids are.

This is normal behaviour. 

When the kids go to school,  and are in a situation where comparisons can be made, some parents suddenly feel it necessary to find a reason why their kid isn't top of their class.

It is, I believe,  then that the "special needs" card is played. 

Sadly  I also believe that the gender confusion is, in many cases,  a fashion statement. Somehow I struggle to believe that very young children have this issue but that real cases develop, or rather question their sexuality at secondary school age.  Parents need to be very careful not to lead their children by the nose into something that would sort itself out later in life. 

Given the choice between a Batman outfit or a pretty pink dress I think kids know which they'd like,  but if asked "Would you like that Batman outfit  or that pretty pink dress that you would so lovely in, oh it is so nice"  the desire to please its parent may override the child's preference, causing it perhaps to aim for both.

[Vaughan]

7 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

I reckon I'm going to catch he'll for this.

As I seem to be up and reflecting on life, in the early hours, let's see if I can catch some as well!

My education was at public school, which was also a naval college, so I spent all the time in the uniform of a cadet, RNR.  As it was also single sex (as all public schools were then) there was no question of "gender"!  Above all, there was naval discipline.  I didn't find this oppressive ; in fact it was delivered with justice and if you chose not to conform you got a hard time, which you knew you deserved.

I am afraid public school in those days was more akin to a prison sentence - perhaps it still is.  Personally I don't think it did me any harm, although we didn't really know anything about "girls" until we left school.  That was a great pity, in one's formative years but it was "the system".

I am reminded of the famous book "We joined the Navy" by John Winton (whom I met) where the admiral in charge of the cadet selection board for Dartmouth is telling his board members what to look for when selecting suitable candidates.  "What we are looking for is half - wits : the Navy will then add the other half in its own way and in its own time!"

Am I being flippant, as MM fears he might be?  I don't think so.  Surely education is supposed to prepare you for life; not just offer you academic excuses to opt out of it?  Are children taught with proper discipline these days, and thus learn self discipline?

The other key word for me, is pride.  Pride in one's self and in what one is achieving.  Are children allowed to be proud of themselves any more?  Competitive sport is frowned on, because when you win, that is unfair to the losers!  That is, if the school even still has a sports field.  I wonder if Wellington was right after all, that Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton?

 

[grendel]

my daughter had started her law degree before she found out she was dyslexic, all it gained her was some extra time in exams. and she got her law degree.

I have never been diagnosed dyslexic, but some of the signs were there I now recognise, the essays at school that missed out great chunks- that were still there when I read it through- they just never made it onto the paper, yet it was masked by the fact I was a voracious reader, averaging about 12 books a week.

I dont think it really held back either of us.

[Gracie]

Mark's post should be framed, brilliant and thank you.

I work with children and have come to know when a child is being just plain naughty or may have a problem with learning, anxiety etc. I know there seems to be a label for everything now days and I also know that some parents will want their child labelled so something can be done and they get the help they need

I also know there are some naughty children who are just plain naughty or naughty for a reason. Trying to get some sort of attention because they don't get any at home or a more sinister reason, abuse etc.

What I also try to remember and bring into my everyday work life is that 'normal' children are special too and deserve just as much attention

Many years ago when I worked in a Nursery one little boy in my care would just sit and scream for no reason, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't coax him to stop, he would toddle up to the toy corner and smash them on the table. I reported this of course, the parents had him tested, he was Autistic.

I like to think I did my bit in helping that little one and hopefully can spot the signs and help another child in the future

Grace x

[Ray]

Interesting discussion and I agree with the all that has been said. My older brother is extremely dyslexic, he is over 70 now so when he was a child there was virtually no recognition... eventually the best they could offer him was a school for kids getting into trouble with the law. It was the only thing they could think of as a "Special" school.

He has done well in life but he definitely bears the scars of his childhood.

Like everyone else here I recognise that of course some youngsters have problems but the 'fashion' for a diagnosis is swamping and holding back those in genuine need of the help that would benefit them.

I too can't get my head around gender identity problems in very young children, I would have thought those people who genuinely struggle with this wouldn't begin to suspect they need help until at the very earliest around puberty and more likely as young adults. I have no recollection at all of a single peron having any issue of this kind during my schooling.

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, Ray said:

I too can't get my head around gender identity problems in very young children, I would have thought those people who genuinely struggle with this wouldn't begin to suspect they need help until at the very earliest around puberty and more likely as young adults. I have no recollection at all of a single peron having any issue of this kind during my schooling.

Nor do I, Ray.  I can’t help thinking that some impressionable young adults (let’s call them), suffer from peer pressure and trends.  Again, perhaps social media has much to answer for in this respect, where we can all be bombarded with posts on veganism, race, religion, sexuality, politics and more.

The more I hear about today’s society, the more grateful I am to have been born when I was, so I can use life’s experience to take notice of what interests me and dismiss what doesn’t.