Flooding

[Wussername]

I have to compliment and congratulate Dom and Marshman. They have both identified and grasped the nettle.

For my part I see so many people, posturing on matters which they have little or no understanding. 

 In particular other platforms, where they attempt to impress,  to gain in order to achive a degree of control or a recognition of influence.

I recognise their objectives with a degree of concern.

Very old Wussername. 

 

[LizG]

I have no time for areas of BA management but at the end of the day if the EA say no ...

Last week I went to a meeting of river Beane restoration group. A local chalk stream/river. Affinity our water supplier has grand scheme to meander the river through a flood plain but at the end of the day EA will be the decider if it goes ahead however good the plan is

[grendel]

since my neighbours concreted their garden over on rare occasions I get minor flooding in my garden (maybe an inch near the back door) of course this is the area I have now built my shed, and over the past few weeks I have had several occasions where the puddle has started to form by the back door (now has a paving slab step which helps avoid paddling.)

[batrabill]

Perhaps there’s a silver lining in the current flooding. A little understanding of the reality. 
 

It’s starting to appear that the BA are not responsible for all evil throughout history. 
 

BTW I thought the guy from the EA wasn’t smug at all, he seemed to be the only one who really knew what he was talking about. We should all worry about his “1953” point. 

It’s hard to get your point across when much of the audience have already decided the flooding is because the BA haven’t dredged enough between Stokeby and Yarmouth 

 

[dom]

1 hour ago, batrabill said:

Perhaps there’s a silver lining in the current flooding.

I'd strongly recommend that you don't express that sentiment amongst your wife's parishioners. Or in neighbouring Potter or Horning for that matter. With raw sewage polluting streets and river levels threatening the beleaguered pub and boat hire industries, it's a fairly crass and insensitive statement to make and Norfolk natives can be fairly unforgiving.

The BA are also responsible for plenty of other failings, irrespective of their culpability in flooding. Personally, I question whether their reticence to provide clear financial figures is because they're failing to make ends meet and are spending excessively on staffing and legal fees at the expense of things like maintaining Hoveton riverside, or dredging Bure mouth. I notice the latter has been moved forward again. Conveniently, that probably means a lot of costs will fall into next financial year. Moving your expenses forward is a classic symptom of a business out of control of its finances.

[addicted]

When we first boated on the RGO. in the 80s It was managed by the NRA this was altered when in the 90s  it was taken over by the EA. From then on the standard of maintenance from the boaters' point of view deteriorated hugely. For example locks were altered in such a way that prevented eels accessing their traditional breeding  grounds.  Which in turn led to the complete diaappearence of the eels and  all the numerous trades connected with them  It seems to me that  the Broads are being run by an organisation headed by  a man  who appears to have his own agenda overseen by an authority whose idealistic ideas are far from practicable and very far from prioritising people. I sometimes think that if I never heard the words" back to nature" or "wild life" again it would be too soon. We frequently hear the term endangered species. The endangered species is us!

 

Carole

[dom]

I visited an EA office recently and have had a couple of subsequent interactions with them. On doing so, you inevitably find yourself comparing them to BA.

I think EA's one big advantage is they're very compartmentalised, so if a department starts to underperform, it's less likely to have wide reaching effects. It also means people are very focussed on their jobs. The down side is, it's evident that people are reluctant to do anything beyond their job description. Asking a couple of river inspection and licensing people about the impact of the preceding weekend, when there'd been record water levels, their response was "it's the flood response team's responsibility". When I asked them if a river inspector would loosen mooring lines, or contact an owner to prevent a sinking, the response was just blank faces. I suspect BA rangers would be far more proactive in similar circumstances.

Back around Christmas time, a boat went adrift and ended up in the middle of nowhere on the Old West River. EA put out a safety notice, but it's still there now, despite prolonged periods of lower water when it could have been moved. It's evident they're very risk averse, so would no doubt claim it was too dangerous to move, despite the water being like a mirror when I last stopped off for a look. My biggest fear is that when someone does eventually move it, they find the owner has come to some harm.

I do often wonder whether the Broads would work better if they were handed over to EA, then BA retained solely for a conservation role. I suspect it'd work better from a funding perspective and would at least prevent the current buck passing on dredging.

 

[Hylander]

24 minutes ago, dom said:

When I asked them if a river inspector would loosen mooring lines, or contact an owner to prevent a sinking, the response was just blank faces. I suspect BA rangers would be far more proactive in similar circumstances.

That is utterly disgusting.     What happened to "Do unto others what you have them do unto you".   How would they feel if it was their boat in trouble.

[Hylander]

Look at 3:13.    Will this help with the flooding?

https://youtu.be/rbTygZ7cOQM

 

[dom]

I guess it will depend on where the water goes. There was mention at one point (possibly the Hickling meeting?) of relieving flooding by pumping water to the treatment plant at Belaugh. Unless anything has changed, I'm sure water from there just discharges into the Bure after treatment, so presumably flooding in Hoveton would actually increase. On the plus side, it'd probably flood the BA tourist office if so, which might make them put more pressure on EA

A lot of the Cambridgeshire Fens is below sea level and only kept dry by continual pumping, so it's a viable option, but I suspect they'd need to tackle more than just the upper reaches of the Thurne.

[batrabill]

3 hours ago, dom said:

'd strongly recommend that you don't express that sentiment amongst your wife's parishioners. Or in neighbouring Potter or Horning for that matter. With raw sewage polluting streets and river levels threatening the beleaguered pub and boat hire industries, it's a fairly crass and insensitive statement to make and Norfolk natives can be fairly unforgiving.

Not sure why you need to be so aggressive. There are silver linings in most things. My garden is currently a vast quagmire and our mooring is underwater. We “Norfolk natives” are perhaps able to have a more nuanced view than you suggest. Having clarity about what is wrong and who can actually do anything about it is really valuable. For donkeys years it has been all John Packmans fault. A bit of grown-up reality is a good thing. 

I suspect the EA have been rather pleased that BA have caught the flack for everything that has gone wrong for decades

If there is to be any serious attempt to reduce flooding in the future it will be EA that will lead.
 

The drainage board have already announced they plan (by 2025?) to replace most of the pumping stations around us.

 

If the creaking sewage system is to be improved it will be Anglian Water. 
 

So that’s where the pressure needs to be exerted. We will see what the modelling the EA does this year tells them. If Duncan Baker continues the pressure there may be movement. 

[dom]

12 minutes ago, batrabill said:

Not sure why you need to be so aggressive. There are silver linings in most things.

What exactly did I say which is supposed to be aggressive?

I doubt the owners of Horning Ferry, The New Inn, Martham Boats, Ferry Marina, Richardsons, etc think there are silver linings in much right now. A poor season this year could prove to be a death knell for their businesses - particularly if an incoming Labour government chooses to rob funding or increase corporate taxes to address social issues.

14 minutes ago, batrabill said:

We “Norfolk natives” are perhaps able to have a more nuanced view than you suggest.

Which part of Norfolk was it that you were born in?

22 minutes ago, batrabill said:

For donkeys years it has been all John Packmans fault.

Most things have been. Go take a look at the state of Hoveton around the Three Horseshoes moorings, then tell me why you think coming on here singing Packman's praises is justified from the standpoint of anyone who cares about Broadland.

[marshman]

Could someone take the "sting" out of some of these posts? We are supposed to be a friendly bunch you know!!!

[ExSurveyor]

Time to tone down the personal jibes and political comments please.

[marshman]

Another day, another load of rain - yesterday we had another dollop! Over half an inch in my garden and we are just about to have another load this morning! None of which will help matters on the rivers I am afraid.

I see on the news that after another dry winter, Sicily are beginning to ration water with some places only having water every other day - mainland Spain is not much better!!!

 

[Smoggy]

19 minutes ago, marshman said:

I see on the news that after another dry winter, Sicily are beginning to ration water with some places only having water every other day - mainland Spain is not much better!!!

An export opportunity to bolster BA coffers and reduce the tolls then?

[SteveO]

1 hour ago, Smoggy said:

An export opportunity to bolster BA coffers and reduce the tolls then?

No, by the time they have recruited a new directorate to ensure diversity, accessibiliy and inclusion for recipients of water exports, it will be costing toll payers plenty

[Cheesey69]

The fact is, and yes I was JCB driver who ditched for a living, all these works are very, very expensive. And getting more so because of the skills shortage.

Take the roads for example, I can tell you the list for upgrades, pot hole repair and maintenance is scary but the budget is shrinking made worse due to the cost of labour and importing materials that we just don't make here.

So much like The Broads, we deal in emergencies, a little planed work for safety. The big stuff has to be okayed by the government who funds that

This country is now in recession and folks, how much does the country want to pay? not a lot

[CambridgeCabby]

2 hours ago, Cheesey69 said:

The fact is, and yes I was JCB driver who ditched for a living, all these works are very, very expensive. And getting more so because of the skills shortage.

Take the roads for example, I can tell you the list for upgrades, pot hole repair and maintenance is scary but the budget is shrinking made worse due to the cost of labour and importing materials that we just don't make here.

So much like The Broads, we deal in emergencies, a little planed work for safety. The big stuff has to be okayed by the government who funds that

This country is now in recession and folks, how much does the country want to pay? not a lot

Whilst I fully agree with your sentiments , it is ridiculous that “those in power” fail to grasp that maintenance is far more cost effective than repairing when broken .

[kpnut]

1 hour ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Whilst I fully agree with your sentiments , it is ridiculous that “those in power” fail to grasp that maintenance is far more cost effective than repairing when broken .

Same goes for the NHS etc. Wouldn’t preventative work be so much more cost effective than just prescribing meds ad nauseum to put thing right once they’ve gone wrong?

[kpnut]

On a lighter note re:flooding and cos Smoggy and Griff mentioned getting under the bridges on another thread - 

I had a strange dream about Wroxham bridge last night. It felt like it was in real time, full colour and motion etc. 

I was in Wroxham at high tide according to the aweigh app and noticed the bridge only had enough space for a kayak to get under.
Funnily enough, it was Wroxham with the environs correct and folk on the other bridge looking down, but the bridge itself was flat topped like Ludham Bridge. 
 

So I took a photo to put on the forum. 
I then made my way to the Hoveton side to take a photo from another angle, all of two minutes walk. By the time I got there, the water had all drained and a boat going through was scraping its rudder on the bottom! And like Ludham, the cills were there, plain as day. 

No-one else in my dream thought this behaviour of the water was odd. 

 

So just goes to show, this damned flooding and rain problem affects us all in many diverse ways😂😂

Wish it was true though and the high waters would just disappear overnight. 

[Wussername]

They will dissappear. They always have. It is when people interfere that it all goes wrong. The rivers, the tides, will take thier natural course. If allowed.

[SteveO]

4 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Whilst I fully agree with your sentiments , it is ridiculous that “those in power” fail to grasp that maintenance is far more cost effective than repairing when broken .

Trouble is that repair comes out of "revenue" budgets, which are often strapped for cash, whereas replacement comes out of "capital", which can be written off over several years via depreciation. Investment in new stuff also often attracts grants and other inducements which makes doing the right thing even more unattractive.

[Cheesey69]

3 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Whilst I fully agree with your sentiments , it is ridiculous that “those in power” fail to grasp that maintenance is far more cost effective than repairing when broken .

Results, my friend, results!

Politically, everyone expects maintenance, its not sexy or noteworthy and its expensive. repair when broken looks the part and you can say your doing your bit. looks good on the books too.

Every night, large sections of the motorways are closed down between 11 and around 4 in the morning. Hundreds swarm over the road space, repairing and replacing.

By the morning they fade away. You wont notice the lights changed, vegetation trimmed, white lines, patches and cameras serviced.

But you still get someone complain the roads are falling to pieces and no one actually does anything and what about the miles of cones with no one in them?

Fact is, cutting office staff wont save much. The days of cheap labour have gone and the cost of materials have at least doubled or trebled and most government agencies need to lobby for more funds to do maintenance work that the current government wont get an once of credit for

[Mouldy]

 I tried to upload these yesterday whilst at Horning Pleasurecraft, but for some reason, I can no longer post photos direct from my phone.  Anyway, these were taken around 13:30, high tide was due at just after 16:00.