When things go up in smoke

[Hylander]

Our house's reaction was that you did extremely well Robin.    Other half said had he been on his own he would have not have worried beyond getting the boat to safety as you did.    Had I have been on board then he certainly would have gone into an extreme panic mode as I would have been having a nervous breakdown.   No one knows exactly how they would react in any situation until that situation occurs.   Sure you will feel a big tetchy at the moment but that is partly down to shock.   I dont care how of the 'gung hoe' brigade on here would feel , you would all feel a big sense of relief but it would still have given you a shock.

 

Take it easy and let the family spoil you for a day or two (if you are back home that is).

[grendel]

I have been in the past a chief fire marshall for my workplace, part of the training is really to see how people react when confronted by the hot flickery stuff, we had a company that bought a gas powered trailer that could simulate a variety of fires, and the training was in recognising how big a fire was controllable and when to call in the professionals. we were told if the fire is bigger than a waste basket full, get out and get everyone else out and leave it. The training weeded out those that would not even go near the flames and those who paniced.

From what I saw Robin didnt panic, he made a plan and stuck to it, there are a lot of very sensible people who would have paniced in the same situation. I have been in a similar situation when the wiring in my car under the dash caught fire, having to stop from motorway speeds and then deal with an electrical fire is not fun, the smoke is choking, but I stopped, got out and disconnected the battery. 

There is no training when it comes to the real thing, you either react right or wrong, knowing from the smell of the smoke it was probably an electrical fault, meant that opening hatches wasnt going to cause a flashover, electrical fires are fed by the fuel (insulation) and the electrical supply.

If Robin had cut the engine earlier, it may have stopped the fault - yes, but if not could he have restarted it with the dodgy electrics - maybe not, so getting to shore first was a good option.

If I was in a similar situation I would be glad to have Robin at my back.

Grendel

[deebee29]

Hi Robin

I think you did well in the situation.

I won't comment on what you did right or wrong (not criticising anyone who has by the way)

We can know all the theory and have all the training (I have been on various Fire Brigade and safety training courses) but until you are put in the situation and the adrenaline kicks in, you can never know how you will react.

The main thing here is YOU are safe and unhurt and no one else was injured.

Secondly the boat was ok, but boats can be replaced, you can't

I hope the incident doesn't put you off (and I don't think it will)

Take care & I look forward to your next adventures

[Oddfellow]

The argofet unit is a split charging diode - calling it an isolator (as Victron does) is a bit ambigious.

 

Turning off the batteries at the main swicthes would be a key point here and the BA asks that we have the location of the main battery swicthes as part of our handover.

 

Stopping the engine too would be a key issue as the Argofet is connected to both the Alternator and each of the battery banks.

 

This would have been a very worrying time for anybody on the boat and Robin handled it well and proper.

[MauriceMynah]

I did notice that when Robin left the wheel whilst the boat was still motoring in gear, he looked out to assess the situation several times every few seconds or so. I wouldn't have classified that as particularly dangerous at all. In most of the other respects though I agree wholeheartedly with Speedtriple, especially the Life jacket.

 

I've as yet only watched the clip once but shall do so again and I'm sure there's a lot we all could learn from it. I'm going to make one or two changes to Nyx as a direct result from the video and later comments. First on the list will be to move my battery isolator switch out from the engine bay to a position where it can be operated without opening the engine bay. Odd that this isn't a BSS issue.

 

Anyway, bloody well done Robin (am I allowed to say "bloody"?) a situation well handled.

[Wussername]

I think that Robin did extremely well under very difficult circumstances. I think that he made a good call in making for the island. Not as crowded as Ranworth itself at that time of the year and people tend to stay on their boats and would be able to assist. From the start of the broad, adjacent to the island, it is difficult to see if there is indeed vacant moorings. Not good if there is only one space and you pitch up with an escalating problem, the majority of boats unattended, and the danger of any fire involving other craft.

I think that evacuating on to a bank in many cases should only be considered in an extreme emergency. To jump from the bow of some boats could prove difficult for children and also for the elderly. The bank itself could be dangerous, slippery, boggy and difficult to manage. Next time you approach Malthouse broad look at the bank, it looks very formidable.

But there are so many variables, I have quoted possibly a worse case scenario, thankfully these incidents are very rare.

[lampini]

AND if nothing else Robin, there's a whole bunch of us out here (remember there's a load of folk who never post, just read..) who are now thinking.. 

 

"Blimmin' 'ek - what if that happens to ME?! What would I do??"

 

This is A VERY GOOD THING.

 

So thanks for posting this....

 

   

[Stranger]

well done Robin in the cicumstances imadgine it happeniong going through Yarmouth or accros Braydon in control assesed the situation and dealt with it i only found the isolators on Suncharm by accident as they are attatched to the bed side in the rear cabin , lets face it  all this type of thing should be standardised for location across the whole hire fleets

[Polly]

Looking at the footage, it looked pretty scary! One point, the possible fire was actually at the stern, what other escape routes were on the boat? If it had gone critical, that escape route would have been cut off.

I am truly paranoid about checking for a way out as soon as I go into a boat. If we had a narrow boat it would have to have a mid opening or I'd not be a happy bunny at all. . Our first boat was a tiny cruiser with galley next to the only cabin exit. Nobody was allowed in the cabin therefore when the gas was lit. they all thought I was bonkers! No comments IF you don't mind!

[smellyloo]

Thanks Robin for posting this ..... it helps us all to think "what would I have done" in comfort.

 

Many on here, including me, are mechanical numpties so for me the priorites are (for the broads):-

 

Turn off gas to negate the chance of explosion.

 

Get every body in life jackets and ready to get off the boat as quickly as possible.

 

head for the nearest accessible bank away from other boats if possible.

 

Turn off engine and get off the boat.

 

Only investigate if you are sure the chance of fire has receded,

 

The boat is the least priority ...... it is only a thing ...... it can be replaced.

 

 

Of course if this happened at sea it is a completely different and potentially dangerous situation in that case you would hopefully have a well thought out plan in place remembering that "abandon ship" is the last resort.

[Viking23]

There is no doubt that Robin did very well in that situation, I'm not sure that many of us would have done any better in the circumstances.

The mention by several posters of what could have gone wrong, has been very useful, I have learn't a lot from that. Many of us would have opened a hatch to look, maybe felt the temperature first, yeah right... So at least we will all think again.

The cutting off the battery isolators, may have cut the engine on the modern boats, but maybe not on the older generation. This could affect what happens next.

Attempting to restart the engine could have put a greater strain on the batteries and cabling, who knows may have caused a battery to explode, after all, lots of oxygen and hydrogen emitted from a battery during charging or discharging, one spark...

Who needs gas...?

Robin, had you not done what you did, and either bailed out to the first passing boat, or moored and ran... then the boat could have been a total loss, we may have lost all your earlier footage too... only joking, nothing is that important when lives are at risk.

I think the boat yard owe you a great thank you, (maybe a chance to take her out again)... as that hire boat continues it's hire, after a few minor repairs.

I would say, that since you were the only person on board, you didn't have to worry about other people, had your Mum or girlfriend been on board, I'm sure you would have gone about this a different way, no doubt considering abandoning ship... and having them ready to depart with their lifejackets on, in a safe place, maybe on deck.

Your personal priority, I have to say, looking at the video, was saving the boat, which in many cases most of us would do. You assessed the risk, this was your risk, and no one elses.

Had you cruised to Ranworth Staithe, you could have put other boaters at risk, should there be a fire, on the other hand, the emergency services would have been able to get to you, unlike Ranworth Island.

This has been a great learning process for us all. Non of us could plan for this, we would have to face the unknown and think on our feet.

Robin, you did very well faced with this, you appear to be so calm, but clearly worried.

If I was on the crew of Apollo 13, you would certainly be a part of my crew.

Well done,

Richard

[GeoffandWendy]

Under the circumstances, Robin did what he thought was best. It is alright stating where he might have gone wrong (not putting on life belt) but his first priority was to isolate the gas, do a quick check as to where the smoke might be coming from and to get to dry land as soon as possible.

Everybody would have acted in different ways, but Robin sensibly did his best under the circumstances. He assumed he would be safe, having established that there wasn't actually a fire, but an electrical fault  and he was concerned that damage to the boat might have been caused.

 

Personally, I think he handled everything well and saved himself as well as the boat from any serious consequences.

 

I think that after this incident. Boat Yards should make sure that everyone hiring boats, are shown how to isolate the batteries before handing over the boat and to make sure that the hirer is happy, as what to do in an emergency.

 

You get my vote of WELL DONE!

[neilp1962]

I agree with everyone who says they'd like Robin to have their back in an emergency, I'd have still been swimming after abandoning ship. He didn't panic and dealt with a developing situation very very well.

 

It's very scary watching his videos though, I remember a hired Aquafibre pearl 38 he was in battling with the Yarmouth ebb torrent, then the next day the throttle linkage breaking fortunately when he didn't need every horse power he could muster. Then imagine if this electrical problem had happened on a Breydon crossing instead of when he was within touching distance of an empty mooring

 

One thing's for sure, keep away from the Rascal if you see him, he's obviously a Jonah   (just kidding)

[ranworthbreeze]

After seeing Robins full video of his adventures on Day 9; I agree Robin did the best he could do in the situation, he remained safe and protected the boat, the boatyard are extremely lucky that Robin was onboard their craft and not someone new to the Broads.

To be honest I think they owe him a debt of gratitude.

This event has taught us all a lesson to make sure we all know where our battery isolators and fuel cut off valves and the main isolation valve for the gas (if onboard) are.

In our case the fuel cut off valves and battery isolators are in a cupboard under the main control panel and of course the gas bottle valve is in the aft vented gas locker.

It is inconvenient to turn off the gas at the locker, but if this is turned off before going onto the river and at night it is a good step towards safety.

It is true we all would like to think that we would have acted with of the confidence that Robin appeared to show, he did not falter even though you could see he was very worried.
I bet he thought he would never reach the island.

Regards
Alan

[NonTecky]

I will certainly be paying more attention to where the isolator switches are for Battery and fuel in the future, As I watched the video my first thought was 'I cant recall where those isolators are on the last boats Iv'e hired, but I do know where the gas ones are!"

 

Blimey Robin, you don't have much luck with electrics! is the other thought that's crossed my mind!

[dnks34]

Can i just clarify if im correct in thinking that in this case the manual battery isolator switches did not isolate the batteries from this auto isolator unit as its fitted between the batteries and the alternator thus the only thing it isolates is the batteries from eachother when there is no alternator charge detected and not the actual appliances on the boat? I looked at fitting one of these when i bought my boat but was informed that the old fashioned split charge relay is actually far better anyway.

[LondonRascal]

Firstly thanks for everyone’s comments (and praise) and pleased to see some will make changes or consider things more carefully as a result of my experience.

 

As far as the old fashion split diodes are concerned, Argo FET isolators act similarly to diode battery isolators, allowing simultaneous charging of two or more batteries from one alternator (or a single output battery charger) without connecting the batteries together BUT unlike diode battery isolators, FET isolators have virtually no voltage loss. Voltage drop is less than 0.02 Volt at low current and averages 0.1 Volt at higher currents.

 

I am pretty sure this had a fault perhaps caused or made worse by a loose earth connection discovered earlier in the week I hired the boat. That said if I had one of these I would not be put off replacing it with another – so many things can go wrong electrically or mechanically and nothing from any manufacture is going to be 100% perfect for its life.

 

Having said that, if I had one these I might consider where it is located and what is around it – if not a fuse between it and the batteries, then its own separate isolating switch so one could in a moment cut off power being fed from the batteries to it.

 

The isolator switches for the batteries are ‘after’ the Argo Fet Isolator so would not isolate power feeding to the unit – also the inverter/charger is not isolated when the battery isolators are pulled because it is wired before the isolator switches too. That is why I had to isolate that separately by getting down into the engine compartment under the saloon floor.

 

As I said to Barnes Brinkcraft upon my return, I feel fortunate it happened with me (and perhaps they lucky it did too) because I once I reacted very quickly to the situation and once I was moored and safe could communicate to the engineer what had happened and what was needed other than to just say ‘help there is smoke and something is not working’. 

 

I have to say I would not like to think what might have happened if this was a novice couple on the boat – I am far from perfect in many respects including some of the actions I took during this event, but if I was the type of person to dither, panic and ‘loose it’ it would surely have not helped matters one little bit.

 

Still, as ever with me when a boat goes back for the next hire you know it is in tip top condition

[Jonathan]

Robin,

Of course, it might be that running all of those chargers for the cameras and PMR radio was "the last straw"! 

 

(Yes, this is just a humorous comment  ... I know that those devices add almost nothing to the power drain compared with normal lighting etc.  )

[Maxwellian]

Full credit for sharing Robin. This has given us all something to think about and prepare for when we are afloat. I must admit I am impressed with the way you handled it.

[imtamping2]

You did well Robin.....and do not let any one tell you otherwise........

and if you did not notice this is a HOT topic

[dnks34]

Robin the system i have got is just a simple relay which connects both banks together when the ignition is on allowing them both to be charged by the alternator, they are also connected individually to the shore power battery charger to recieve a charge, im led to believe a much simpler setup with minimal voltage drop and no electronics as such to go wrong!

[grendel]

we once had a fat fire in our camper van, the frying pan went up in a woosh, the wifes reaction much to the surprise of all 4 on board and one person walking past, was the eviction of the offending article through the rear door - imagine a flaming frisbee whizzing out of the door you are walking past. effective - certainly, it got the fire source away from the camper. safe for the 3 people inside and the one outside as it went past - maybe not quite so.

it hat departed before I even got my hand to the fire extinguisher (co2 type- maybe not the absolute best for a fat fire)

Grendel

[JawsOrca]

I've just watched the video.. and certainly agree Robin did just what I would do (Probably/hopefully!). Engine off in less than 2 mins was brilliant! As I mentioned earlier I would have opened the engine bay and yup left the helm if required.. I believe you do need to work out how serious things are. With regards to mooring at the island, I certainly think this was best it got the engine off and clearly you wasn't injured (as per my earlier comment) so the main priority therefore was to get the engine off.  I've broken down on the broads a few times and the mechanics have lots of way getting out to you (it just takes longer).. once we was rescued by a tug boat on the Ant although we wasn't bothered we just done some fishing!

 

Your knowledge you boat systems clearly helped get it fixed quickly Again I hope it didn't spoil your trip and thanks for sharing and even grabbing the video when events happened perhaps it will even help someone decide what to do if the worst should happen.  

 

I must admit I'm a bit worried about the isolators though, although previous posters have worked out that these wouldn't have helped much for this problem, I understand the logic why they should be marked and accessible. From what I can see from Robins video is that they aren't clearly marked and accessibility is questionable.

 

In fact both are a BSC Requirement: 3.6.5/R REQUIREMENT: Is the location of all battery isolators, or the means to operate them, in open view, or their location clearly marked? (Check that all battery isolators, or their means of operation, are in open view with all removable lids, deck boards, curtains, doors, etc in place. If not in open view, check their location is clearly marked in open view.). If this is not the case then I understand the BSC is not valid.  Not that I want to cause any arguments but I think it's something, if true, should be redeemed ASAP.   (http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/164496/bss%20guide%20chap3.pdf).

[alexandlorna]

I think like many have said already , its easy to say you should have did ....................

But these things never happen to a training plan , so you did the best you could , and as it turns out you have been proven correct as you are unhurt and the boat still floats  

[Regulo]

Forgive my well-known ignorance, but shouldn't the point of battery isolation switches be to do what it says - ISOLATE the batteries from everything? What's the point of having battery isolation switches that allow possibly faulty electronic gear to remain connected directly to the batteries? I'd like to think that when I throw a battery isolator switch, everything connected to that battery will now be dead. That's what happens on my boat, anyway.