It Was The Best Of Times, It Was The Worst Of Times Pt2

[dnks34]

A Bowthruster can also give a good indication of a novice helmsman to keep out the way of. 

He will be the one going along trying to steer with it

[addicted]

30 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

A Bowthruster can also give a good indication of a novice helmsman to keep out the way of. 

He will be the one going along trying to steer with it

With a thruster each end we don't moor we park! It makes mooring side on in a tight space a doddle, but there are times when the thruster is no match for the wind ,when you're being blown off a friendly pair of hands on the bank to whom you can toss your lines is a godsend.

Regards,

Carole

[Chelsea14Ian]

 I have seen people  use the thing in the middle  of the  river.All you need to do is steer.There are times I could do with one.Most times its fine using gears,steering  and a little power 

[BroadAmbition]

Never had one on any of the boats I've hired, come to think I can't ever remember using one.   I too have seen/heard helms using them whilst underway

Griff

[JennyMorgan]

Does the RN have them?

[BroadAmbition]

They might well have nowadays  JM, but none of the ships / boats I served on ever did. Especially not the QRB Ribs I used to coxswain

Griff

[Broads01]

I wasn't criticising bow thrusters on my last post, just pointing out I've never hired a boat that has them. I've no doubt I'd benefit were I to choose to pay more for a boat with thrusters but I've never felt sufficient need. (I prefer to spend less and hire more often.)

[MauriceMynah]

Sorry Simon, my comments were aimed generally but with an eye to Gracie's fellow. I often hear comments about bowthrusters and how 'unnecessary' they are, yet I see them as another hand on deck. Misused... yes, often, but still handy if things aint working your way !

[tjg1677]

Just had one fitted to mine and frankly it has been a godsend, I do not advocate using one for the sake of it just because you have one but having handled ships with them fitted I do advocate using them to help moor / get underway safely.

My mooring is quite tight to get out of and pre bowthruster , probably required 15-20 gentle ahead and astern movements to get off the berth and get her head round to go up and out of the cutting onto the river and even more so when returning to the mooring. With the BT i can now do this on about 5-6 ahead stern movements and a few gentle nudges from the thruster - great !. Just look at it this way, it is taking a lot of wear and tear off my final drive, gearbox and clutches.

In truth, I do try to refrain from using a bt as I enjoy boat handling but it dont half give peace of mind to know they are there.

Trev

[tjg1677]

2 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Does the RN have them?

The first properly commissioned purpose built RN warships to have bowthrusters fitted were the Hunt class minehunters built entirely out of GRP. The first one commissioned was HMS Brecon in 1980 I think it was. I dont know if subsequent major warships have them i.e. frigates and destroyers but the modern sandown class multi role minesweepers have them too.

trev

[BroadScot]

With two ladies as crew, and my lack of mobility, having both bow and stern thrusters was a boon, on our last trip.

Iain

[ranworthbreeze]

Bow thrusters are an aid, great when you need them, they are a godsend with limited crews but you need to use them with care.

I only use ours when needed and in short bursts, they draw a large amount of current and can flatten batteries with ease when holding the bow thruster switch for long periods. 

Regards

Alan

[Vaughan]

When I am on a trial run and the customers say "Has it got a bow thruster?" I pick the boathook up off the cabin top and "Yes. Here it is". 

[vanessan]

Cross channel ferries have them, the skippers seem to find them quite useful.

When the hire yards first started fitting them, quite regularly we would hear a boat coming along and then the sound of the bow thruster as the helmsman changed direction. It was a case of 'look at my boat, it's got what you haven't'! Only now it seems that half the boats on the Broads have bow thrusters and the 'in' thing for hire boats is to have stern thrusters too. Seriously though, we would really miss our BT, tight spaces are a doddle now - as long as they are big enough if the first place!

[grendel]

the channel ferries often need bow and stern thrusters, considering up to 3 can be manouvering / berthing / unberthing simultaneously inside the breakwaters at dover and they often need at least a 180 degree turn (sometimes a 270 for the end berth) and only have 2 boat lengths to manouver, I would say they are pretty essential there, especially to hold position when coming into a berth with the wind off the berth.

[Baitrunner]

I suspect the proliferation into many commercial ships meant they didn't need a tug to help manoeuvre. The tugs cost them a lot of money to use. 

I would think the larger naval ships don't have them as they will use a tug if need be - they don't need to save their owners money!!!

its like many things as technology gets better and cheaper it makes more sense to use it to 1) make life easier and 2) faster  turn arounds thus more money to be made. 

Does it make me a worse driver if my car has reversing sensors, abs, auto dimming mirrors, power steering to name but a few gadgets we all have as standard on our cars now? It just makes life easier, safer. 

Ok I draw the line at self parking cars, but as I get older I may be grateful as the eyes and other bits get older and don't work as well. 

[Vaughan]

I apologise to Cheesy that we have "nicked" his thread - he will get used to that on here - but there're some points I want to make which may be of serious practical help to those not sure of bow thrusters.

 

Basically, a bow thruster will hold your bow up into the wind when manoeuvring and only when the boat is stationary. That means not "making way" through the water.

They work because the turbulence from their prop tunnel is pushed out into the water alongside and thus pushes the bow across - but this will only work in still water. If the boat is moving, the current will wash this turbulence aft and the effect of the prop becomes useless. Baitrunner told us of a time in Reedham when his thruster didn't work in the tide. This is because he was "stationary" in terms of the bank but the boat was still "making way" in the tidal stream, which washed away the effect of the turbulence from the thruster.

On the Broads, the main bonus is when you want to get the bow off the bank if trying to leave a mooring on a lee shore. Normally you would moor on the weather shore, in which case bring the bow in to the bank, get a bow line on, turn off the engine and then pull the stern in with a rope. Much easier, and safer. If in a very strong wind, you can touch the bank with the bow and then go slow ahead to hold it there, using the wheel to keep lined up. This gives your crew all the time in the world to get off with a rope. When leaving a weather shore, just cast the lines off. The boat will drift out on her own.

I don't like to see bow thrusters used when mooring stern on, for two reasons :

1/. The knack of mooring stern on is entirely a question of getting your boat in the right position, relative to the wind, before you start going astern. The wind will then help you in, by blowing the bow round as you back in. After a bit of practice you can do it with a glass of wine in one hand! Normally I would not consider mooring stern on in a tideway, unless I was against a marina pontoon.

2/. As you are going astern, everything is backwards, and you are likely to press the wrong button on the thruster and go the wrong way.

Electric thrusters are limited in their use and and on hire boats often have a 10 second cut out, to prevent overheating. The best ones are hydraulic, on boats with a hydraulic drive and these would be perfect in a marina situation, where you are actually using it to position your boat in tight corners. But again, only when the boat is stationary.

So please remember, you steer the boat with the rudder, not the thruster, and it is still up to you to make a good approach to your mooring with a mind to wind and tide. The thruster might then help you out a bit at the last minute!

[Baitrunner]

Vaughan the point I was trying to make is that BT do have limitations. Even in still water my BT would struggle to push against a strong eg 30 mph side wind. 

The tide up the bum just pushed the bow back in as you would expect. Normally kicking the back out you expect the tide to do the rest for you. But the wind just pushed that back in as well. Maybe an extreme example, but it will happen 

good point about the thermal cut outs and I know plenty of people who have had that happen. 

They are a help and I do agree should not be over used. 

But if they help an inexperienced skipper get the stern on mooring lined up easier then I say thrust away. 

I know we will always have differing opinions on the use of BT but I'm happy for them to use them as much as they want if it installs confidence and helps them get it moored up safely. 

Experts like yourself and Griff are few and far between on most boats - private and hire.  I mention Griff as i have seen him handle BA and he does make it look easy!!!

[vanessan]

3 hours ago, grendel said:

the channel ferries often need bow and stern thrusters, considering up to 3 can be manouvering / berthing / unberthing simultaneously inside the breakwaters at dover and they often need at least a 180 degree turn (sometimes a 270 for the end berth) and only have 2 boat lengths to manouver, I would say they are pretty essential there, especially to hold position when coming into a berth with the wind off the berth.

I did make that comment tongue in cheek! With regard to tugs, the ferries at Dover still need their help from time to time when the wind is exceptionally strong. The cliffs above the docks make a good viewpoint - if you can stand upright that is! 

[dnks34]

Many ferries operating in the UK whilst fitted with sizeable bowthrusters are not actually fitted with stern thrusters.

Most do have something else called a Becker Rudder.  There were also a few Townsend Torenson ships originally built with a bow rudder and propulsion for going astern. 

 

[grendel]

stand? I usually park up in the car, there is a couple of good spots right on the top (overspill) car park, that you can sit  and see everything. and yes it can be windy.

[ZimbiIV]

To all those who eschew the use of or even having a bow thruster, 2 things,

A does your chariot still have a starting handle?

B how are you posting? Surely a quill and papyrus are a perfectly adequate means of communication?

I have a BT, rarely use it but am thankful for it when I use it.

I agree using it to steer is completely pointless but they are very handy to move the bow a tad to/from the shore when mooring

to save wear on the gearbox etc.

paul

[riyadhcrew]

I think I am right in saying that most, if not all commercial passenger ships have twin screws (as a minimum) which means that controlling the stern of the vessel is relatively easy. This is when a bow, or multiple bow thrusters come to the fore. When a ship, or a broads boat, just has to moor in bad conditions, all toys should be welcomed and used as required.

[BroadAmbition]

Even if we desired one (Which we don't) due to the construction of 'B.A' it would need a tunnel fitting inside which would get in the way, it would probably be too high over the top of the hog - in fact I know it would, therefore it would probably be half in the hog and half on top of it, it would be far too messy and weaken the hull planking / ribs.  There is a space we could fit a heavy duty cranking battery close by, but that space is being reserved for a powered windlass some time down the river for when Degger. Robin and Howard find it too difficult to raise the mudweight by hand

Griff

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, Baitrunner said:

Experts like yourself and Griff are few and far between on most boats - private and hire.  I mention Griff as i have seen him handle BA and he does make it look easy!!!

I thank you for that comment but bizarrely, I think it explains my feelings. . . 

I am not an expert, because you never stop learning about boat handling and that, surely, is the joy of it? I don't think I ever get on a boat without learning something.

Let's face it, the Broads are a playground. They are like no other waterway I have ever seen. Here, you really can play Admiral Nelson and come to no real harm. Broads boats have always been designed for these conditions, with a long keel to keep them straight, a balanced rudder and a large radius coarse pitch propellor for control at low speed, even when drifting in neutral. The old Herbert Woods boats  like Queen of Light would literally turn in their own length.

I know for sure that I have given pleasure to many hundreds (maybe thousands) of hirers by taking the time to explain the basic skills : how to control the boat when drifting in neutral; how to understand the basic fact that it steers by the stern, so you need to leave room for the stern. When approaching a mooring against a current, wherever you put the bow, the stern will follow. Always approach a stern on mooring up-wind, go just a bit past your mooring space, turn up into the wind and if you have judged it right, you won't even have to touch the wheel after that - just gently astern with a few touches in ahead, and a round of applause from those on the bank!

This is the fun of what I call "pure" boat handling. I agree that a bow thruster can be a convenience in doing the final positioning but it will never get you out of trouble if you have messed up your approach in the first place.

If your Avatar is a picture of your boat, then you do have other things to consider - a very high freeboard means lots of windage and you probably have a Deep Vee bottom, rather than a prominent keel. Also a short keel. Perhaps your engines are also on Z Drives? In which case this is a whole different skill. I would recommend that you always try to choose the weather bank when mooring, so that you can keep the bow nudged into the bank into the wind, while the crew have time to get the lines ashore. When leaving, I agree - get the stern out, and go out stern first. Much easier!

Of course there are so many other factors - the water depth and its "squat" effect, a right or left hand propeller (very important) and a round bilge, against a hard chine.

But that to me, is all part of the fun of it!