Dft Seeks Evidence On Air Pollutant Emissions From Domestic Vessels And Inland Waterways

[Timbo]

DfT seeks evidence on Air Pollutant Emissions from Domestic Vessels and Inland Waterways
https://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/dft-call-for-evidence.aspx
 

The Department for Transport has published a Call for Evidence to explore emissions from all engines on vessels operating domestically within the UK, including inland waterways.

The Government’s Clean Air Strategy sets out the need to reduce emissions from all sources to improve air quality, including emissions from vessels. As part of this vitally important area of work, the DfT is seeking to collect a body of evidence that will allow Government to understand more clearly the extent of emissions from vessels that do not currently fall within the scope of environmental regulations; and establish if it can do more to address emission issues.

The RYA has been involved, along with other stakeholders, in working with the DfT official managing the Call for Evidence on Domestic Shipping Air Pollution.

The Department would especially like to hear from:

Vessel owners

Vessel operators

Ports

Marinas

Boatyards and boat storage companies

Interested bodies such as harbour and navigation authorities

As well as submitting its own response, the RYA is encouraging its 112,000 members to respond to the Call for Evidence, as an important opportunity to influence future policy development by helping Government to gather the specialist knowledge and information held within the recreational boating sector.

How to respond

The consultation closes at 11:45pm on 11 January 2020. Respondents are required to complete a response form and either:

Email your response to: domesticshipping@dft.gov.uk

Write to:

Domestic Shipping - Call for Evidence 
Maritime Environment and Financial Incentives 
Zone 2/31
Department for Transport 
Great Minster House 
SW1P 4DR

In setting a six-month window for this call for evidence the Department has sought to recognise that the summer season is particularly busy for many small craft operators who form a key group of respondents.

A summary of responses, will be published within three months of the close of the Call for Evidence. Paper copies will be available on request. The Call for Evidence is being conducted in line with the Government’s key consultation principles.

If you have any comments about the Call for Evidence process please contact the Consultation Co-ordinator at consultation@dft.gov.uk. Please do not send the Call for Evidence responses to this address.

 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

They`ve worked their lies and con on cars, now they`re doing it to boats. Is`nt it funny how ALL public transport and service vehicles have NEVER been included, or am i, as usual, being a tad synical again?. Being moored at Brooms, every day, you see those big rumbling old deltic  diesel locos pumping out more polution per engine than probably all the boads boats put together. We can smell them at our riverside mooring every time they go by.

[unclemike]

looking for something else to tax

 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

34 minutes ago, chameleon said:

looking for something else to tax

 

Exactly so.  As soon as the public start to make savings by being shrewd, all of a sudden the Whitehall mafia start finding ways to legally con us yet again. Some of us can`t tighten our belts anymore, there just IS`NT any left in our purses.

[Coryton]

48 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

They`ve worked their lies and con on cars, now they`re doing it to boats. Is`nt it funny how ALL public transport and service vehicles have NEVER been included, or am i, as usual, being a tad synical again?. Being moored at Brooms, every day, you see those big rumbling old deltic  diesel locos pumping out more polution per engine than probably all the boads boats put together. We can smell them at our riverside mooring every time they go by.

I'm not sure what you're saying that public transport has never been included in.

There are strict emissions regulations for diesel trains, but as with road vehicles they aren't applied retrospectively so 60's built diesel locomotives can continue as they are, just as vintage cars and motorbikes can.

Indeed, locomotives built as late as 2014 can no longer be built for the European market as standards have moved on since then.

But compared to road traffic in Norfolk, I find it hard to see how boats could be a significant contributor to emissions - the total number of boats must be minuscule compared to number of cars, never mind the difference in speed.

I don't think the small number of rail services in Norfolk hauled by 60's locomotives are significant either, other than at a local level, but I could believe it's more than the boats put together.

Anyway the diesel locomotives are on their way out very soon to be replaced with Swiss-built trains meeting all the current regulations.

[Turnoar]

Yes Dft, the river wensum adjacent to Thorpe road, type 37 Diesel engines registered to direct rail services... is this serious? Those of us who believe in being green are being fooled by the taxman!

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

5 minutes ago, Turnoar said:

Yes Dft, the river wensum adjacent to Thorpe road, type 37 Diesel engines registered to direct rail services... is this serious? Those of us who believe in being green are being fooled by the taxman!

It`s very important to be green, you can sunbathe on the lawn and get away with it .

 

Seriously though, we`ve all been put in the position where we have recycling bins, food waste bins, and general household waste bins. yet when our local recycling waggon comes round, neighbours have reported they throw the food waste bin contents into the recycling bins, and it all goes into the truck.  A good friend at work who recently retired said the food waste is supposed to go for recycling into animal feed, yet gets incinerated. I`ve also been told that all the recycling bin contents goes to landfill. We all want to do our bit for being green, but it seems everything we do is irrelevant.  

While on holiday down in Devon in mid may, on the lunchtime show with Jeremy Vine, they were discussing so called green energy, only the vast majority of green energy is NOT actually green, it`s only the paperwork that says it`s green. All the energy company has to do is buy a certificate of some kind which then allows them to claim their energy is green, yet in reality, they can get it from some filthy poluting source. 

All this "green" get up is a load of crap, yet gives dishonest businesses a legal way of ripping us off. And of course, the government get their share via VAT,  as well as numerous MPs being "invited" to sit on the boards of these energy companies, thus ensuring they get their rake off through generous salaries, bonuses, and expense accounts.

The whole green energy get up is a joke, but an unfunny one which the tax payer have to pay for.

[KaptinKev]

I always remember some years ago when I was behind this double decker on my motorbike, and the slogan on the back of this bus said something like "Go Green, Catch a bus". When it pulled away there was this big puff of black smoke and I could hardly see the advert or the back of the bus.

[Vaughan]

This is a report on air pollution.  Worth remembering that engines on the Broads are water cooled with a "wet" exhaust, so particulates from a diesel exhaust are washed into the water, rather than polluting the air. This leaves only CO2 and a minuscule amount of CO, in the case of a diesel. Petrol engines, from outboards, etc., do cause more actual air pollution.

Most canal narrowboats however, have keel cooling and a dry exhaust.

[MauriceMynah]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

and a minuscule amount of CO,

That wasn't what was being said when we were all being told to fit Co alarms in our cabins and houses. though of course co alarms are not VAT free.

As I cannot make comment on this without being blatantly political, I shall say no more... no I shall add this...

There is a difference between being "globally green" and being "locally green" Locally green means clean here but polluting somewhere else (electric cars etc.) Globally green means trying to clean up our act without upsetting elsewhere. (reducing single use plastics where possible etc.)

One company has been advertising as product which comes in a recyclable plastic bottle, but to show their green credentials they now offer refills that come in single use non recyclable plastic sachets. You couldn't make it up!!! 

[Turnoar]

Apology type 37s, you are doing a sterling job under the circumstances which I believe to be a fleet of new trains unable to perform the task due to the risk of doors opening beyond the platform where only two cars long with all the new trains being a minimum of three. An IT issue maybe.... would you believe IT? The world has gone system crazy, the self serve ticket machines are redundant to commuters like moi who won’t buy it until the train with a seat space arrives aka from the conductor, cash for when the signal isn’t strong enough. The trains are no furthers forwards than 1989, in fact it’s the same sprinter stock. Progress on the bittern line... it’s quicker by boat!

[JennyMorgan]

Anyway, back to boats, can't compare with the M25 but there is no question that large marine engines do kick out a hefty cloud of unpleasantness and it can and does lay on the water between the reeds on the bank. Unlike roads there is little or not much passing, high speed traffic to disperse it so yes, there is a problem, in my humble opinion. 

[CambridgeCabby]

9 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Anyway, back to boats, can't compare with the M25 but there is no question that large marine engines do kick out a hefty cloud of unpleasantness and it can and does lay on the water between the reeds on the bank. Unlike roads there is little or not much passing, high speed traffic to disperse it so yes, there is a problem, in my humble opinion. 

True , but if you can see the “plumes” then they are without a diesel particulate filter , so much larger particles that don’t stay in the air like the much finer particles can do from modern diesel cars .

A good friend of mine who works for a major oil company told me that if the smelly diesels of old were re-introduced then the nox present in major cities would be reduced , but you would see the black kerbs return due to the larger heavier particles staining them .

[marshman]

Its a consultation document, or evidence gathering exercise, not an announcement of intent!!

By the time they get round to it, I shall be dead, and so will my diesel be - probably!!

[grendel]

I must say I do love my non particulate filter- non adblue diesel, it runs clean due to the mileages I do daily, but if I need to boot it hard, it does leave the fellow behind in a nice grey black cloud of smoke (its grey black because I use a small percentage of sunflower oil, if I use straight diesel its a blacker black, if I raise the amount of sunflower oil it gets greyer). it does however mean I have to avoid the centre of London,  with the congestion charge (£11.50) and the emmissions charge (£12.50) it would be expensive to wander into there. (and probably the same again to park for a few hours).

But as you say the bigger particles do settle and clear a lot quicker

[TheLaird]

Hmmm... I wonder where that leaves me with my 40year old Evinrude two stroke.

Clive.

[grendel]

or my two stroke seagull

 

[ChrisB]

When not stationary on tick over or in reverse most modern outboards bury it wth their through prop exhausts.

Now Seagulls are in a class of their own. The pollution starts when you flick over the choke and use the " tickler " that supplies the first oil slick more will follow later! I love em. I once motored all the way from Bucklers Hard to Ridge Wharf in a flat calm in the Sea Wych. The mighty Century Plus and its Hydrofan prop never missed a beat all day. Refuelling was fun leaning over the transom though, and when some power boat passed during the process we produced some spectactular oil and petrol rainbow effects.

[TheQ]

13 hours ago, ChrisB said:

When not stationary on tick over or in reverse most modern outboards bury it wth their through prop exhausts.

Now Seagulls are in a class of their own. The pollution starts when you flick over the choke and use the " tickler " that supplies the first oil slick more will follow later! I love em. I once motored all the way from Bucklers Hard to Ridge Wharf in a flat calm in the Sea Wych. The mighty Century Plus and its Hydrofan prop never missed a beat all day. Refuelling was fun leaning over the transom though, and when some power boat passed during the process we produced some spectactular oil and petrol rainbow effects.

You could always reduce the smoke by fitting the 20 to 1 oil jets instead of the 10 to 1 jets as I did.. and the larger tank.  Same Silver century plus engine, which at least has a clutch, It's hanging in the garage now and may be resurrected soon.

[ChrisB]

3 minutes ago, TheQ said:

You could always reduce the smoke by fitting the 20 to 1 oil jets instead of the 10 to 1 jets as I did.. and the larger tank.  Same Silver century plus engine, which at least has a clutch, It's hanging in the garage now and may be resurrected soon.

Yes, I did rejet. The "Ace" polluter can be seen over my left shoulder. Judith and I had just brought her round to Poole from Weymouth. My parents lived at Netherbury and had brought the two boys round by car, Mother being convinced that she would be bringing them up and that she would never see J and I again. I ommitted to tell her what it had been like in a 19 footer off St Aldhems!

I can't believe how young we look! Forty years takes a terrible toll.

[ChrisB]

PS. I bought mine already fitted with the large tank from J.G. Meakes chandlery in Marlow. I am pretty sure it was £147.00 in 1976.

[JennyMorgan]

6 hours ago, ChrisB said:

Yes, I did rejet. The "Ace" polluter can be seen over my left shoulder. Judith and I had just brought her round to Poole from Weymouth. My parents lived at Netherbury and had brought the two boys round by car, Mother being convinced that she would be bringing them up and that she would never see J and I again. I ommitted to tell her what it had been like in a 19 footer off St Aldhems!

I can't believe how young we look! Forty years takes a terrible toll.

That Tea Cosy is in a class of its own!