Another Incident At Grt Yarmouth I'm Afraid.

[rightsaidfred]

24 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

I would never have hired a boat years ago if it involved a lengthy course and a test before I could take off, and had I not hired I wouldn't be boating now 20 years later.

Second that twice over, if we are really serious about changes to reduce people getting things wrong then maybe we should ban alcohol in all its forms, ban short breaks as they are only about people having a fun weekend, ban children and pets as they can be a distraction, ban day boats because they get in the way I am sure all of that would make a difference and I am sure it would go down like a lead balloon.

Fred.

[Mouldy]

52 minutes ago, RealWindmill said:

 

My "training persons" would be self employed , a bit like Boat Surveyors doing the BSS checks. They could perhaps negotiate outside of the hire yard charges'

As for professionals,  well remember the old joke, An expert is defined as " A has-been under pressure" ( Ex - spurt).  

edit to put in Jokes section if you like.

What I would be interested to find out is how much a one-to-one training day would cost and who would pay?  If we take your idea of a self employed person as a trainer, he would clearly need a boat to train in.  Add to that the costs of keeping and maintaining said craft, the trainers services for a day and some profit (after all, who works for nothing).  Also, factoring in the number of novice hirers, then how many trainers would there need to be?  
In my opinion, the idea is absolutely unworkable.  The costs would be too high as would the numbers requiring compulsory training.  If anything were to kill the Broads hire industry, implementing your idea would be it.

[Vaughan]

1 minute ago, rightsaidfred said:

we should ban alcohol in all its forms, ban short breaks as they are only about people having a fun weekend, ban children and pets as they can be a distraction, ban day boats because they get in the way

You forgot the paddle boards Fred.

[Victoryv]

This is straight off the top off my head without thinking to hard about the logistics, but every day boats with experience of Breydon cross it, would it be possible to set up some sort of guide system, where somebody with experience could shadow the less confident as they cross.

Not sure how it would be implemented, but not beyond the realms of possibility. 

[Mouldy]

We crossed Breydon yesterday and I noticed that there are several posts missing  on both sides of the channel.  Given their spacing, three consecutive posts missing does create a significant gap and could lead to some confusion to a novice helm.

IMHO, they should be replaced as a matter of urgency so as to clearly mark the channel and lessen the potential for confusion.

[Meantime]

5 minutes ago, Victoryv said:

This is straight off the top off my head without thinking to hard about the logistics, but every day boats with experience of Breydon cross it, would it be possible to set up some sort of guide system, where somebody with experience could shadow the less confident as they cross.

Not sure how it would be implemented, but not beyond the realms of possibility. 

To go back to a point that Marshman made earlier on, if everyone follows the advice and crosses at slack low water then there would be more people crossing at the same time and would make it easier for novices to follow or feel safer as they are effectively cruising in company.

[grendel]

airline pilots do initial training in flight simulators, now i have  seen simulators for oil tankers and full size shipping, would a simulator program / machine be a viable alternative to on the water training?

a simple computer simulation could give experience to some novices (as well as providing a fun way for people to learn).

this could be sent as a link with the holiday pack, add a login for the customer and you could track how much self training they had done, and tailor the handover to suit.

anyone up to writing the software?

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, Mouldy said:

We crossed Breydon yesterday and I noticed that there are several posts missing  on both sides of the channel.  Given their spacing, three consecutive posts missing does create a significant gap and could lead to some confusion to a novice helm.

IMHO, they should be replaced as a matter of urgency so as to clearly mark the channel and lessen the potential for confusion.

JP has raised this very issue this morning. There are currently 60 posts that need replacing at a cost of £2,000 each. Don't suppose that was factored into the equation in the rush to take control of Breydon from Peel Ports!

[Regulo]

BA has a pile driver type crane on a barge, surely? How can it cost £2000 to knock a post in?

[Mouldy]

18 minutes ago, grendel said:

airline pilots do initial training in flight simulators, now i have  seen simulators for oil tankers and full size shipping, would a simulator program / machine be a viable alternative to on the water training?

a simple computer simulation could give experience to some novices (as well as providing a fun way for people to learn).

this could be sent as a link with the holiday pack, add a login for the customer and you could track how much self training they had done, and tailor the handover to suit.

anyone up to writing the software?

There are already videos for hirers to watch  prior to starting their holiday. Not sure that the same hirers would watch a simulator on a tablet any more readily than they watch the tuition videos that already exist.  With the size of most yards and the number of hand overs they must do through the season, it would still be difficult to impart the right level of knowledge the time allowed.

Not only that, but would it be possible to replicate the feel of a rising or falling current sufficiently well on a home computer without the kind of set up that flight simulators or car simulators achieve.

[grendel]

1 day to load the pile and get the barge to the correct location, 1 day to drive the pile, 1 day to return barge, diesel costs staffing costs, they soon mount up, plus the cost of the timber pile., you gain economy of volume if you have several to do in one small area.

[Regulo]

Could do more than 1 a day. Although having seen the rate at which they usually work, I'm not sure! 

[grendel]

3 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

There are already videos for hirers to watch  prior to starting their holiday. Not sure that the same hirers would watch a simulator on a tablet any more readily than they watch the tuition videos that already exist.  Not only that, but would it be possible to replicate the feel of a rising or falling current sufficiently well on a home computer without the kind of set up that flight simulators or car simulators achieve.

does it need to give the full experience, or just a feel for how things work, either that or maybe a tank with some radio control boats at the hire yard, instructor - now show me how you would approach a stern mooring?

now show me a side on mooring against the tide, with the tide. something simple to show the principles involved, that may well stick in the hirers mind?

 

[Poppy]

Well there's £150K surplus in the tolls AC according to another thread

[grendel]

Just now, Poppy said:

Well there's £150K surplus in the tolls AC according to another thread

30k after you account for the 60 piles.

[RealWindmill]

 

Mouldy. You didn't read my suggestion in much detail. My "training persons" are  skippers onboard the hire boat. Much like Charter Boat skippers and this only for the first hire for a novice hirer.

Also no other boats involved or needed.

We are told first timers are not the biggest sector of the market although this number will admittedly grow with staycationers.

Smoggy. No lengthy course or waiting to take off as the training is incorporated into your holiday.

 

Alas I fully realise the whole idea IS a non starter, but only IMHO because of current Covid and distancing rules and regs.

 

( Right , off to the Third Crossing Fish Restaurant now for lunch.  One for JM to add to his list of excellent eating establishments in O/B.

[tim]

3 hours ago, SwanR said:

A slight aside from Breydon but relevant to this point. My first hire of recent years was on the southern rivers. So not experienced and a little nervous. Rockland Broad was really confusing! I didn’t know why red and green posts are on the side that they are. Or the significance of a yellow post. And the fact that they change halfway round where the Broad meets the Dyke down to the Staithe meant I had no idea which red and green to keep between.

Got to agree with you there, first time I went down there I came out the same way as I went in, despite it being better for me to go the other way, as I wasn't confident I was in the right place.

Now it doesn't bother me so much, but I'm very careful

Breydon, on the other hand has not presented any problem to me whichever way I approach it, although the first time I crossed it I was very wary beforehand, read every article and thread watched every video but found it a doddle if you follow the simple rules, which I do!

[Mouldy]

4 minutes ago, RealWindmill said:

 

Mouldy. You didn't read my suggestion in much detail. My "training persons" are  skippers onboard the hire boat. Much like Charter Boat skippers and this only for the first hire for a novice hirer.

Also no other boats involved or needed.

We are told first timers are not the biggest sector of the market although this number will admittedly grow with staycationers.

So is this not the same process as already in place?  If you are suggesting that they spend a whole day with the crew, then this would make a nonsense of the usual 16:00 takeover time, too.  Holidays would surely need to commence by midday to allow sufficient time for the level of training you are looking for, which would impact the turnaround time for the respective yards to clean and service the craft.  There would be a cost, as each yard would need additional staff for the training to take place.

Once again, whilst your suggestions may be well intentioned, as with electric propulsion for boats, they don’t appear to be sufficiently well thought out to be anything more than to provoke controversy.

[Mouldy]

19 minutes ago, grendel said:

does it need to give the full experience, or just a feel for how things work, either that or maybe a tank with some radio control boats at the hire yard, instructor - now show me how you would approach a stern mooring?

I personally find it easier to control a real boat than a radio controlled model.  At least you are facing the direction of travel in the real thing and not having to think in reverse when it’s heading towards you.  

[Meantime]

Credit where credit is due. John Packman is currently talking about this very issue at the moment and makes many good points. It sounds that like it or not, there will be changes in the pipeline.

[grendel]

10 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

I personally find it easier to control a real boat than a radio controlled model.  At least you are facing the direction of travel in the real thing and not having to think in reverse when it’s heading towards you.  

ok how about something like this then

https://www.boatus.org/games/

a boating game on docking boats from a us boating foundation, surely the Broads could do something similar and relevant, ok not everyone would use it, but if it helped out a few newcomers, it would be worthwhile, even if it just taught them a boat steers from the back.

[Vaughan]

I seem to have had a post removed, but the post to which I was responding, is still there.

Despite the spurious allegations against the tourist business on the Broads, which have been posted here all morning, and yesterday.

If that is the judgement, then that is me out of this discussion.

[Poppy]

Just now, Vaughan said:

I seem to have had a post removed, but the post to which I was responding, is still there.

Despite the spurious allegations against the tourist business on the Broads, which have been posted here all morning, and yesterday.

If that is the judgement, then that is me out of this discussion.

It happens - and without the courtesy of a notification from Moderators !

[Happy]

9 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

I personally find it easier to control a real boat than a radio controlled model.  At least you are facing the direction of travel in the real thing and not having to think in reverse when it’s heading towards you.  

  Last September myself and four mates hired Absolute Freedom.  It was stated on the booking form that I had

many years boating experience.  On arrival we loaded the boat and Andy Banner showed us the various bits on the boat. 

Thinking there would be no need for a trial, he said 'are you ready? I said yes, expecting to leave and he said 'we'll take her down the river then'!  We went for around ten minutes then turned round and back to the boatyard.  On arrival he said 'lets see how you stern moor then'.  Fortunately I managed without mishap and off we went.  This was the most thorough hand over I had experienced (even though he knew I had had many years of owning my own boats.  He would not let a boat out until he was sure the helm and crew were competant, should be a lesson for some of the other yards.

[grendel]

17 minutes ago, Poppy said:

It happens - and without the courtesy of a notification from Moderators !

it can also happen as a result of automatic moderation by the forum software, in which instance we do try and contact the poster once we are notified.