Another Incident At Grt Yarmouth I'm Afraid.

[SteveP]

 

 

2 hours ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

I like my version:

You can give someone all the information, but you can't make them think...

3 hours ago, Vaughan said:

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

I have long ago lost count of the number of trial runs I have given, when I could see very well from the clients' attitude that I needn't have bothered to open my mouth.  That applies to the "experienced" as well as the novice first timers.

Stan Laurel had this covered perfectly when he said " You can take a horse to water but a pencil must be lead"😃

[annv]

And if they went a bit slower they wouldn't ram themselves on the mud they then would have a better chance of reversing off most seem to go flat out across there with the result they then cant get off on a ebbing tide . John

[RealWindmill]

4 hours ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Stop right there. I'm not criticising, just trying to come up with solutions. No wonder this country never moves forward with people always ready to jump down your throat. Three posts back after a self imposed break from the forum and I'm already wondering why. Good day to you.

 

Know what.ECIPA.  I've had exactly the same feelings myself over several threads this last couple of weeks.

[RealWindmill]

5 hours ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

As has been said here many times, including by me, and perfectly well illustrated by your comment: 

PEOPLE DO NOT READ THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVEN
PEOPLE DO NOT LISTEN TO THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVEN
PEOPLE WILL IGNORE THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVEN 
PEOPLE WILL FORGET THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVEN

IF PEOPLE IGNORE THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVEN, THEY WILL COME UNSTUCK (OR PERHAPS THE OPPOSITE)

100% agree with you Andy.

Take this logic a step further and think about road users. To be allowed on the roads you have to demonstrate that you have studied the Highway Code and have to be able to more or less quote it chapter and verse before being allowed a license.

Perhaps its about time  a similar system for boat drivers existed.

( put in a smug emoiji here as I already have all the boating tickets ).

[Smoggy]

4 minutes ago, RealWindmill said:

Perhaps its about time  a similar system for boat drivers existed.

That's the hire industry gone then, don't fancy next years tolls......

[HEM]

6 hours ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

As has been said here many times, including by me, and perfectly well illustrated by your comment: 

PEOPLE DO NOT READ THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVEN
PEOPLE DO NOT LISTEN TO THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVEN
PEOPLE WILL IGNORE THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVEN 
PEOPLE WILL FORGET THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVEN

IF PEOPLE IGNORE THE INFORMATION THEY ARE GIVEN, THEY WILL COME UNSTUCK (OR PERHAPS THE OPPOSITE)

This applies to MANY walks of life.

[Poppy]

Regarding the OP, the inquest has started to hear evidence. 

According to R. Norfolk  'he went into the water to swim and came into contact with the propellor of the boat.

His medical cause of death was given as loss of blood due to a wound on his left thigh.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/sly-houlder-river-bure-named-1-6853539

[Vaughan]

6 hours ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

It's easy to sit there and critique this if you've little or no experience of it. 

In order to try and explain Andy's (and my own) frustration at such a long-standing conundrum as boat instruction, I would like to tell a couple of little stories :

Not long ago, when I was working for Locaboat at Argens as a part time job in retirement, I gave a trial run to three middle aged ladies who had flown from New Zealand to have a month in France, including a week on our boat, on the Canal du Midi.  "The holiday of a lifetime", for them.  When I took them out for a drive, they were utterly hopeless. Completely unable to drive the boat at all.  I suggested (as I often have) that they might spend their first night on the yard, get settled in, walk across the canal bridge for a nice supper in the restaurant under the plane trees and I would come back next morning about 10AM, to take them out and have another go, when they were more relaxed.  The relief on their faces was memorable!

I wasn't on duty that Sunday morning, but I came back in my free time and took them out for a run.  The first lock up from the base is about a mile away and I took them up and down there no less than seven times, before I felt they had some idea of driving the thing!  I stayed with them while they took the boat themselves, through the first lock, and then let them go, on their own.  As they left, one of the ladies gave me this key fob, which I have always kept on the keys of my van (now not the same van) and always will.  A memento of how customers can be helped to have a good boating holiday, if they want to be helped.

 

The other time was a lot earlier, in 2001, when I was manager of the Crown Blue Line base in St Gilles, and a Swiss family of three, a husband and wife, with a son of about 25, turned up in their camper van to hire a boat, for 2 weeks.  They were all physically and mentally handicapped.  The husband mostly in a wheelchair, the wife with both physical and mental incapacity and the son not much better, although at least he could drive the camper van.  I got them on board the boat but I was very worried.  I told my secretary, Corinne, that this might be one of those times when I would have to refuse to let them have the boat.  Apart from anything, they spoke no French or English ; only German Swiss dialect.

In the end Corinne and I decided to have a try, as she spoke fluent German.  So she was there, translating my trial run, from my French into her German, for Swiss people who couldn't understand a great deal in the first place!  It was also rather funny as Corinne didn't like boats!  She was an excellent secretary and receptionist but she only went near a boat when she was showing her customers on board.  So this went down in local history as the only time Corinne was ever seen out on the canal in a moving boat!  In the end, with mental butterflies in my stomach, I let them go, and hoped for the best.

We heard nothing for the first week, until the Port of Sète phoned me at 11PM to say they had a boat full of water in the port.  When I arrived they were in an awful state, with water over the floor in the fore and aft cabins.  It turned out later that they must have hit the prop on something, which disturbed the stern gland and they had also switched the bilge pump off on the dashboard.  I had no choice but to put them in a local hotel for the night and as it happened, I had another boat nearby, which had been left by people who had family problems at home.  So next morning I got cleaners out to the other boat, collected them from the hotel and set them off again!  They came back at the end of the week with no further trouble and delighted with their holiday.

They came back to us for 2 weeks every year for the next five years, until I left, and maybe for longer than that.

And yet my wonderful new  Wizz-kid conglomerate tour operator employers would probably have condemned me if anything bad had happened, because I hadn't ticked enough of their boxes.  I am not sure, to be honest, if those customers could even sign their names.

 

When they came back the first time they gave me these, to say thank you.  The 20 Euro note is folded, Origami fashion, into a little boat.  These are probably my most treasured mementos of a life in the hire boat business.

I suppose the moral of the story is that you can give customers all the information they need, if they are prepared to listen and you can give them the time and personal service, even if you work for a huge and impersonal global tour operator.  In that, I don't suppose I am any different from the instructors these days, at Richardsons or Woods.  It is "in the blood".

As for Breydon, it has been the same for hundreds of years and I don't suppose we are going to "tame" it now!

 

[Oddfellow]

7 hours ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Stop right there. I'm not criticising, just trying to come up with solutions. No wonder this country never moves forward with people always ready to jump down your throat. Three posts back after a self imposed break from the forum and I'm already wondering why. Good day to you.

To answer your first point I last hired in 2004. I did read what I signed at the time. We always looked after the boats we hired and never got stuck on Breydon, but sorry if I cannot remember a 16 year old disclaimer and haven't seen one since.

It's not for a forum user to come up with solutions but your post reads very much like it is a criticism, or more precisely, an assumption that we aren't already doing the most basic of things as required under the Hire Operator's Licence terms. 

 

7 hours ago, Wussername said:

If people do not listen, or seem to understand the trial run with regard to its importance then it would seem to me that it may be time to revisit the procedure.

Is it working?

Is the literature working, the DVD’s, or perhaps the actual way the trial run is presented?

Andrew

Yes, the systems do work in the main. There are around 800 hire boats being turned around weekly with likley 4000 holidaymakers afloat every seven days. There's a tiny fraction of these vessels that get into difficult. It's a pretty decent "success rate". Sadly, some people will not listen, forget, be assholes and maybe do some very dangerous things. They will do this regardless of what they have been told, signed to say they understand, etc. It's a fact of life. 

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

It's not for a forum user to come up with solutions but your post reads very much like it is a criticism, or more precisely, an assumption that we aren't already doing the most basic of things as required under the Hire Operator's Licence terms. 
 

Andy perhaps you need to read the paragraph in full, rather than just jumping in with two big feet on the first part of it and just quoting the first part. I suspect the £500 contribution towards a recovery and signing that they agreed to that would focus minds on reading and understanding the disclaimer. Whatever, don't bother replying, as a mere forum user, I'm sure I have nothing useful to add!!!!! Although as the hire industry doesn't seem to have found a solution yet, who, knows listening to new ideas might just work!!!  

"So perhaps the answer is to ask people to read the most pertinent information during the handover and get them to sign that they have read and understood it. If they have signed the handover sheet and later need to be rescued from Breydon and don't have a reasonable enough excuse for getting stuck, such as a mechanical breakdown they are expected to contribute £500 towards their rescue costs."

[Oddfellow]

10 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Andy perhaps you need to read the paragraph in full, rather than just jumping in with two big feet on the first part of it and just quoting the first part. I suspect the £500 contribution towards a recovery and signing that they agreed to that would focus minds on reading and understanding the disclaimer. Whatever, don't bother replying, as a mere forum user, I'm sure I have nothing useful to add!!!!! Although as the hire industry doesn't seem to have found a solution yet, who, knows listening to new ideas might just work!!!  

"So perhaps the answer is to ask people to read the most pertinent information during the handover and get them to sign that they have read and understood it. If they have signed the handover sheet and later need to be rescued from Breydon and don't have a reasonable enough excuse for getting stuck, such as a mechanical breakdown they are expected to contribute £500 towards their rescue costs."

I did read it in full. It suggests we do things that we either already do or are largely unenforceable. 

There is no solution needed for a problem that barely exists. Some 800 boats go out each week in high season and perhaps 2/3 end up in trouble on Breydon. That's pretty low percentages and it's hardly a new idea either. That's my point, you are not a hirer or an operator but you assume you know how the industry works and is governed by licensing. It's been happening for decades, but Social Media hasn't. Once upon a time, you would never know how many boats were aground becuase you had no way of knowing or even discussing it. Now you know, it's some kind of massive problem that needs solving. It isn't. It dosen't. It would be great to stop it entirely, but no matter what measures you introduce, it will not stop unless that measure is to pump trillions of tonnes of mud off of Breydon. 

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

There is no solution needed for a problem that barely exists. Some 800 boats go out each week in high season and perhaps 2/3 end up in trouble on Breydon. That's pretty low percentages and it's hardly a new idea either. That's my point, you are not a hirer or an operator but you assume you know how the industry works and is governed by licensing. It's been happening for decades, but Social Media hasn't. Once upon a time, you would never know how many boats were aground becuase you had no way of knowing or even discussing it. Now you know, it's some kind of massive problem that needs solving. It isn't. It dosen't. It would be great to stop it entirely, but no matter what measures you introduce, it will not stop unless that measure is to pump trillions of tonnes of mud off of Breydon. 

The installation of arrows by John Cressey at one end of Breydon Water helped reduce the groundings at that end of Breydon. They were so successful that the BA very quickly replaced them with similar. They didn't bury their head in the sand or say there is hardly a problem so we'll do nothing or we have nothing to learn.

If measures could be introduced that reduced the 2 or 3 that get into trouble down to 1 then surely it is worth doing, but I'll leave it to the "experts" to decide what and if it needs doing, as a forum user I now know my place.

[Oddfellow]

17 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

The installation of arrows by John Cressey at one end of Breydon Water helped reduce the groundings at that end of Breydon. They were so successful that the BA very quickly replaced them with similar. They didn't bury their head in the sand or say there is hardly a problem so we'll do nothing or we have nothing to learn.

If measures could be introduced that reduced the 2 or 3 that get into trouble down to 1 then surely it is worth doing, but I'll leave it to the "experts" to decide what and if it needs doing, as a forum user I now know my place.

And, there we have the issue. Some things were trailed by someone deeply connected with dealing with the issue. It had an effect. John knows Breydon like back of his hand and has been a key industry player for many, many years both as a hire boat operator and a rescuer. He knew what was already being done and could objectively look at this and put forward and implement ideas to trial. That's not the same as trying to solve problems from a remote terminal somewhere with only a 16 year old passing knowledge of how the industry worked then and scant if any of how it works today. 

The way you decry "experts" seems deliberately inflammatory. It is us at the sharp end, not you. It is us that knows what the rules are regarding hire handovers and it's our licences on the line if we fail to abide. It's us that feel the full weight of an injury, bereavement and so on should something go horribly wrong. You might prefer to consider your opinion to be as "expert" as those that work in the industry; most would disagree. If you want to be useful in finding a solution, understand what measures and actions are already undertaken before you wade in with "solutions". 

  

[Meantime]

1 hour ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

And, there we have the issue. Some things were trailed by someone deeply connected with dealing with the issue. It had an effect. John knows Breydon like back of his hand and has been a key industry player for many, many years both as a hire boat operator and a rescuer. He knew what was already being done and could objectively look at this and put forward and implement ideas to trial. That's not the same as trying to solve problems from a remote terminal somewhere with only a 16 year old passing knowledge of how the industry worked then and scant if any of how it works today. 

The way you decry "experts" seems deliberately inflammatory. It is us at the sharp end, not you. It is us that knows what the rules are regarding hire handovers and it's our licences on the line if we fail to abide. It's us that feel the full weight of an injury, bereavement and so on should something go horribly wrong. You might prefer to consider your opinion to be as "expert" as those that work in the industry; most would disagree. If you want to be useful in finding a solution, understand what measures and actions are already undertaken before you wade in with "solutions". 

  

No Andy what really hacks me off is when you say "It's not for a forum user to come up with solutions" That is derogatory to every forum user here. I don't decry experts, I decry people that belittle other people. Thankfully some of the best ideas come from people who think for themselves and speak out against the odds.

I expressed an opinion on a forum and put forward an idea and you jumped on it from a great height with size 12 boots, that's what really hacks me off. I was so close to using other language there, that is how much you have pushed my buttons.

Please remember you do not own this forum, neither do I. You have no right to say what solutions forum members can or cannot suggest. We all have a right to an opinion and to contribute here. It is not for YOU to say what forum users can or cannot suggest or have an opinion on, amateur or expert, or otherwise.. It is a DISCUSSION forum remember that.

I don't decry experts, I was being sarcastic in reply to your very derogatory comments about my posts.

"That's not the same as trying to solve problems from a remote terminal somewhere with only a 16 year old passing knowledge of how the industry worked then and scant if any of how it works today. "

Really!!!!!!! That's not condescending?

At no point on this thread have I personally criticised your business or the hire industry. I put forward suggestions and that is all they were. Can you say the same?

[RealWindmill]

5 hours ago, Smoggy said:

That's the hire industry gone then, don't fancy next years tolls......

 

But is that necessarily true though?  Does there have to be a direct link between hire fleet numbers and the tolls collected from private owners ?

People have been messing about in boats or on anything that floats on the rivers and Broads system since they first flooded. Well before the hire boat industry came along. Now i'm very willing to stand corrected on the details of how the industry works by those who have inside in depth knowledge and experience of hire boat operations, so am talking in very general layman terms only.

When there was a realisation that people wanted to come and holiday here and enjoy the Broads then many companies sprang up to cater for the demand. When i first knew Oulton Broad it was wall to wall boat builders and hire yards. Those must have been the gravy days and i suspect many a good living was made. The authority was the GYarmouth Port and Haven Commissioners who collected harbour dues for use of the system. I presume it was when the cargo side of Broadland shipping died that the GYPHC handed over to the newly formed Broads Authority and harbour dues morphed into Tolls.

I'm thinking that in pre hire industry days that not so much maintenance was required to the system but that when hire boats appeared in large numbers maintenance of moorings, facilities and depths became more of an expense.

When the hire industry later declined sharply due perhaps to package holidays in the sun all those yards closed leaving just a few big players and a few niche yards left. Nowadays the big players are developing large high tech boats with all modcons that the modern vacationer seems to demand and want.

I suspect that now staycation is with us that demand will outstrip supply of boats and there may be an upsurge of smaller yards again to provide the service and a bigger range of boat types, sizes and, importantly, prices to the customer.

So Tolls may well be adequately covered by this increase in boat numbers again and so not forcing the BA to make further hits on the private owner.

[Guest Jayfire]

6 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

That is derogatory to every forum user here.

 

1 hour ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

And, there we have the issue. 

Come on guys, there are a few (in my honest opinion) deliberately inflammable posters turning up here lately, but the two of you both have a great conversation going with valid points all around. 

Let's keep it all civil and respectful because I'm learning loads from the both of you as I love to do. Leave any digs for others so the mods can deal with them as appropriate, and let all of us enjoy you both sharing your views

 

[Oddfellow]

12 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

No Andy what really hacks me off is when you say "It's not for a forum user to come up with solutions" That is derogatory to every forum user here. I don't decry experts, I decry people that belittle other people. Thankfully some of the best ideas come from people who think for themselves and speak out against the odds.

I expressed an opinion on a forum and put forward an idea and you jumped on it from a great height with size 12 boots, that's what really hacks me off. I was so close to using other language there, that is how much you have pushed my buttons.

Please remember you do not own this forum, neither do I. You have no right to say what solutions forum members can or cannot suggest. We all have a right to an opinion and to contribute here. It is not for YOU to say what forum users can or cannot suggest or have an opinion on, amateur or expert, or otherwise.. It is a DISCUSSION forum remember that.

I don't decry experts, I was being sarcastic in reply to your very derogatory comments about my posts.

"That's not the same as trying to solve problems from a remote terminal somewhere with only a 16 year old passing knowledge of how the industry worked then and scant if any of how it works today. "

Really!!!!!!! That's not condescending?

At no point on this thread have I personally criticised your business or the hire industry. I put forward suggestions and that is all they were. Can you say the same?

The language you used hacked me off too and I have explained why. 

Sarcasm rarely comes across in anything other than the spoken word. 

It seems, constantly, from posts like yours, that the problem belongs to the boatyards and the BA. No the problem is that personal responsibility is so rarely included in the consideration before anybody weighs in with their size 12 boots. If you want to contribute, apply the BA to be on a panel, forum or committee. When you properly understand the system, you can make useful contribution.

I am sorry if you are offended by my comments, I do, however, stand by them. 

 

[RealWindmill]

My point of licensing or training, call it what you will, is that small boating is fun. Just jump on and do it like " swallows and amazons" . No problem.

However the large high tech behemoths that are hired out today need a different skillset and a knowledge of boat handling and water awareness is essential if they are to be driven safely.

All other leisure pursuits in high tech vehicles require training and licensing. You cant just jump into a light aircraft and take to the skies or jump into the sea in scuba gear or drive your car without proving your competence to someone first and get a license.

I learnt to sail on a dinghy sailing holiday in the Greek Islands when a teenager. It was a course but also still a holiday. Next time I went I was competent and licensed to be solo.

In my system, first time skippers on the Broads would have the same. Their first time would be a learning holiday with a ticket at the end, then next time they would be welcome back solo. ( bit like Vaughan did for his NZ ladies - only for the whole holiday or until competence was proved. Think of the jobs for some of you local instructors ).

[Meantime]

8 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

The language you used hacked me off too and I have explained why. 

Sarcasm rarely comes across in anything other than the spoken word. 

It seems, constantly, from posts like yours, that the problem belongs to the boatyards and the BA. No the problem is that personal responsibility is so rarely included in the consideration before anybody weighs in with their size 12 boots. If you want to contribute, apply the BA to be on a panel, forum or committee. When you properly understand the system, you can make useful contribution.

I am sorry if you are offended by my comments, I do, however, stand by them. 

 

Andy, the point I was making is not to criticise the hire yards, but to put a £500 possible recovery charge against the careless, who had read and agreed with the possible charge, prior to signing the disclaimer might be the wake up call they need, or at least focus the mind more. Whether something actually needs to be done or not I don't know, but with other incidents leading I suspect to the Coastguard erring on the side of caution, surely we can all agree that the helicopter cannot be going out for everyone who grounds on Breydon.

You did offend me and I accept your apology and also apologise if I offended you. Lets leave it there. 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

19 minutes ago, RealWindmill said:

 

I suspect that now staycation is with us that demand will outstrip supply of boats and there may be an upsurge of smaller yards again to provide the service and a bigger range of boat types, sizes and, importantly, prices to the customer.

So Tolls may well be adequately covered by this increase in boat numbers again and so not forcing the BA to make further hits on the private owner.

As an investor can you please tell me how long staycation will last ?

[Oddfellow]

2 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Andy, the point I was making is not to criticise the hire yards, but to put a £500 possible recovery charge against the careless, who had read and agreed with the possible charge, prior to signing the disclaimer might be the wake up call they need, or at least focus the mind more. Whether something actually needs to be done or not I don't know, but with other incidents leading I suspect to the Coastguard erring on the side of caution, surely we can all agree that the helicopter cannot be going out for everyone who grounds on Breydon.

You did offend me and I accept your apology and also apologise if I offended you. Lets leave it there. 

There are many problems with the recovery charge; I fully support the concept as it exists in most other walks of life - screw up and you pay to sort it; it's standard stuff. The BUT is the acceptance of responsibility by whoever is responsible. There will be few people that are totally honest enough to say "Yep, my bad, here's my card". They will say, "It veered of to the left" or "the engine was playing up and in my panic to get safe, we ploughed into the marker post and put a hole in the boat, prove otherwise.". 

Here's my spiel from the end of EVERY handover: 

"We'll cover you for knocks, bumps and scratches because they happen and can happen to even the best of us. All we ask is that you tell us. Significant damage warrants more probing questions, naturally. What we will never cover is any damage done to the roof, screens, canopy, arch and basically most things much above deck level because, well, you should have seen it coming. We also will not cover any cost incurred by negligence such as running aground in an area marked as shallow or travelling outside of a marked channel." 

We've had one grounding on Breydon and one in Rockland Broad in 13 years of operation. Both contributed to the costs of recovery. 

However, we have had many more lumps knocked out of boats that people have said "That was like it when we got it". We know it wasn't but how long are you prepared to argue? Card payments will be virtually immediately reversed upon a complaint to the processor leaving the boatyard with a Charge Back black mark on their file and nobody carries £500 in cash. £50 is becoming unusual and Covid is driving the cashless society harder than any government that wants to track the population could every have achieved. 

There probably is an answer to this, but it is likely to become expensive and protracted in a legal sense. PERHAPS, there is a levy made on every holiday that contributes to a fund in a similar way to ABTA or ATOL. That way, the charge is embedded and everybody pays it regardless of reaping the benefit. It's how we live our lives in general with taxes and so on anyway. But, this would also need huge resources behind it to actually run it and that would swallow funds in admin well before any money got close to front-line services and it would push up holiday costs which people all-too-readily argue are too high anyway without actually comparing value etc and ignoring the fact that the Broads are just about the cheapest navigation to hire a boat on in the whole of Western Europe. 

If there is a solution, I damned if I can see it being implementable. 

 

[Oddfellow]

5 minutes ago, RealWindmill said:

My point of licensing or training, call it what you will, is that small boating is fun. Just jump on and do it like " swallows and amazons" . No problem.

However the large high tech behemoths that are hired out today need a different skillset and a knowledge of boat handling and water awareness is essential if they are to be driven safely.

All other leisure pursuits in high tech vehicles require training and licensing. You cant just jump into a light aircraft and take to the skies or jump into the sea in scuba gear or drive your car without proving your competence to someone first and get a license.

I learnt to sail on a dinghy sailing holiday in the Greek Islands when a teenager. It was a course but also still a holiday. Next time I went I was competent and licensed to be solo.

In my system, first time skippers on the Broads would have the same. Their first time would be a learning holiday with a ticket at the end, then next time they would be welcome back solo. ( bit like Vaughan did for his NZ ladies - only for the whole holiday or until competence was proved. Think of the jobs for some of you local instructors ).

I don't agree with your point at all. A hire boat from 50 years ago handles in much the same way as a boat made last year once you take away all the thrusters, which, of course, make it much simpler. Just because it's new with a new engine doesn't alter the fact that it's much the same. There's also the old chestnut argument that they are so much bigger now (though I note it's not used here), but this is, again, untrue. 44 and 45ft boats have been produced for decades. The one I had was built in 1974 and I still have an Aston Bourne 40 where the hull originated in the 1960s. 

The high-tech in new boats is more about systems than handling. 

I do take your point about training, but it won't happen. It would destroy the domestic boat hire industry on the Broads, Canals and other inland navigation where, frankly, the level of incident is very low. It's much lower than the number of people injured in pub brawls in a single city on a single (old normal) Friday night.   

[RealWindmill]

44 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

As an investor can you please tell me how long staycation will last ?

Is my name Boris ?

[RealWindmill]

27 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

I do take your point about training, but it won't happen. It would destroy the domestic boat hire industry on the Broads, 

Why, or perhaps How ?  ( genuine question )

[JennyMorgan]

43 minutes ago, RealWindmill said:

I do take your point about training, but it won't happen. It would destroy the domestic boat hire industry on the Broads, 

Whilst a few might be put off I am sure a greater number will appreciate the help and advice. Andy, how can you be sure that the industry will be destroyed?