Broad Ambition - TLC Time Again

[BroadAmbition]

I have a 'One eyed stag' (No eye dear) and no intention of finding out! 

Griff

[BroadAmbition]

Utile:-

Common Name(s): Utile, Sipo, Sipo Mahogany,  Scientific Name: Entandrophragma utile

Distribution: West and Central Africa

Average Dried Weight: 40 lbs/ft3 (635 kg/m3),  Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): .53, .63

Janka Hardness: 1,180 lbf (5,260 N),  Modulus of Rupture: 15,060 lbf/in2 (103.8 MPa)

Elastic Modulus: 1,689,000 lbf/in2 (11.65 GPa),  Crushing Strength: 8,280 lbf/in2 (57.1 MPa)

Shrinkage: Radial: 4.9%, Tangential: 6.9%, Volumetric: 11.8%, T/R Ratio: 1.4

Colour/Appearance: Heartwood is a uniform medium reddish brown. Well-defined sapwood is a paler yellow. Generally lacks any dramatic figuring of grain that is common in the closely related Sapele.

Grain/Texture: Grain is interlocked, with a medium uniform texture. Moderate natural lustre.

Endgrain: Diffuse-porous; solitary and radial multiples; large pores in no specific arrangement, very few; reddish brown heartwood gum deposits occasionally present; parenchyma vasicentric, banded; narrow rays, spacing normal.

Rot Resistance: Rated as moderately durable to durable, with mixed reports on insect resistance.

Workability: Utile can be troublesome to work in some machining operations, (i.e., planing, routing, etc.), resulting in tearout due to its interlocked grain. It will also react when put into direct contact with iron, becoming discoloured and stained. Turns, glues, and finishes well.

Odour: Utile has a mild, cedar-like scent while being worked.

Common Uses: Furniture, cabinetry, veneer, boatbuilding, flooring, and turned objects.

Comments: Sometimes called Sipo Mahogany, or simply Sipo, Utile is in the Meliaceae family, and is somewhat related to the true mahoganies found in the Swietenia genus.

There you go, all I needed to know apparently

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This is what a timber supplier has to say about it:-

Regarded as a versatile, high-class hardwood, Utile is a durable working material imported from West Africa and known for its rich, uniform shade of red. A species related to Sapele and a great alternative to mahogany, Utile is also characterised by its attractive grain and high-quality finish. Available cut-to-size at Woodshop Direct.

Responds incredibly well to glues, nails, stains and polishes and is perfect for furniture, joinery, cabinet making and exterior work. Offers all the strength of standard mahogany with a strikingly exotic and distinctive look. 

Griff

 

 

[Robin]

The selection of wood for any part of a boat needs carful consideration

several things need to be taken into account, For rubbing strakes  my personal preference is for a Mahogany and there are hundreds to choose from. Oak is very popular but this can turn black quite quickly if water gets into it, contact with Non ferrous  metals will also turn Oak black.

Considerations

1, Suitability

2, Natural Durability 

3, Density

4, Bending Characteristics

5, Availability

6, Cost

The following is an extract from one of my boatbuilding books which should help with your selection.

 

 

 

 

Another reference i use is Sykes timber website, they sell approximately different hardwoods, click on the hardwood section and select a timber  it gives you all of the characteristics   for that particular wood.

Happy hunting

Robin

 

[MauriceMynah]

I'll wait for the film to come out.

[Robin]

10 hours ago, Robin said:

contact with Non ferrous  metals will also turn Oak black.

Hi Guys

Please ignore this statement, everyone knows it is FERROUS metals that turn Oak black! (Must be my age)

(Apologies to all Non Ferrous metals for this alleged slur on their character)

Robin 

[BroadAmbition]

I sometimes think I’m Ferrous 

Or should that be Ferrel ?

Griff

[Meantime]

57 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

I sometimes think I’m Ferrous 

Or should that be Ferrel ?

Griff

Or even Febrile? 

[BrundallNavy]

Are you planning on doing the rubbers in one piece or laminated like the current ones.  

[BrundallNavy]

You could alway try this stuff it’s very hard wearing.  
 

https://www.wilks.co.uk/marine/traditional-range/overview.html

[BroadAmbition]

Are you planning on doing the rubbers in one piece or laminated like the current ones.

The curve from the bow going aft for around eight feet will have to be laminated due to the radius of the curve.  Going further aft the deck sweeps down slightly so not sure a single piece will flex / bend sufficiently

------------------------------------------------------

You could always try this stuff it’s very hard wearing.  

https://www.wilks.co.uk/marine/traditional-range/overview.html

Now there's an idea, I'll run it past the lads -  Thanks

Griff

[WherryNice]

If you do go with the Wilks stuff beware the prices of things like stainless end caps . I re-did the strakes on my Safari a couple of years ago with Wilks 'Bump!' (in black) and initially bought their caps too. After a rethink about how to do the transom corners I needed four more caps and was able to source what appear to be the exact same ones for roughly a quarter of the cost via Ebay!

 

 

[Smoggy]

I don't like the idea of end caps, if you run alongside something it will be the end caps that cause most damage.

[BroadAmbition]

This then is the difference between 'Mañana' Norfolk and Donny up here in Gods country

Yesterday:-

Whilst at work at around 1500 I popped over un-announced to visit a chap (Tim) that sorts out alternators and starter motors and handed him our 100amp 'Iskra' alternator.  Hmmm he says, getting spares for these ain't that easy.  I requested he tested, fault find and repair if required.  I was just about to depart when he stopped me. I'll test it now for you which he did there and then.  It's not producing any voltage at all he explained, It'll need opening up and diagnosing.  He then went on to say that tomorrow (Now today of course) he was off on holiday for two weeks, I told him that I could do with it sorted before last weekend in February so that was ok and I departed

Yesterday afternoon after my visit to Tim I rang Beta asking what spares they kept in stock for said alternator, brushes and regulators came back the reply.  Is there a more common 100amp alternator that will fit our Beta?  Beta stockist said there might be but that he needed the serial number off our engine which I didn't have to hand so I would have to ring him tomorrow (Now today)

 

Today:-

1100 and I'm chin down, derrière up tiling yet another Holiday Inn Express Hotel en-suite floor when my phone rings.  It's Tim here re your alternator - Its the brushes mate, needs new uns.  Ok says I,  I'll ring Beta and order brushes and a regulator for good measure.  No need says Tim, I've checked the regulator that is fine leave it well alone and I have replaced the brushes.  Can you pop over and collect it before I go off on holiday and btw you now owe me £20

Twenty hours after handing in our alternator with no request from me on any sort of rush job and its fixed for £20. - Beat that Norfolk 

I was so chuffed, I gave him £30 

Griff

[Tobster]

Suffolk (Lowestoft) has Autolec in Norwich Rd, and has sorted many an alternator for me.

for anyone looking Southern Rivers

[grendel]

I once had an alternator going bad, I drove into work, took the alternator off and dropped it into the alternator shop down the road, I picked it up at 5 pm at the end of work and refitted it to my car and drove home.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

If you`ve lived somewhere long enough and mix in the right circles (pubs) you can normally find the right man.

[BroadAmbition]

Which is where I was given his name / contact details from during our weekly Sunday night gathering in the Harvey Arms pub.  Our 'Sunday Night Drinkers Club' that has been going on for decades.  Chaps and dogs but no girlies of any description

Griff

[BroadAmbition]

Here is the news,

We are pricing up 'Utile' hardwood to replace the entire rubbing strakes onboard 'B.A'  We have our first prices back

Size required - 75 x 25mm – Order 27 linear metres       -  Supplied -  Sawn 38mm x 85mm

Size required - 65 x 25mm – Order 27 linear metres       -  Supplied - Sawn 38mm x 75mm

Size required - 50 x 25mm – Order 27 linear metres       -  Supplied - Sawn 38mm x 60mm

Size required - 75 x 40mm – Order 31 linear metres       -  Supplied - Sawn 50mm x 85mm

Size required - 65 x 40mm – Order 31 linear metres       -  Supplied - Sawn 50mm x 75mm

Size required - 35 x 25mm – Order 24 linear metres       -  Supplied - Sawn 38mm x 45mm

Job Price - £1’260:00 inc Vat,  On top of this there will be a delivery charge unless I can collect using the GriffTile van

 

As suggested by Brundall Navy:-

I have been in touch with Wilks - For the top rubbing strake only.  Supplied  ‘PVC2478T’  at £67:20 per metre, 27m = £1’814:00 inc vat. Plus adhesive / plugs / delivery.  It will bend round curves with use of a heat gun.  Fastening method - S/steel screws and bonding finished with 10mm pvc plugs. It will then need sanding to achieve the required finish.  It will accept our s/steel rubbing strip fastened with s/steel screws.   £1'814:00 is possible between the four of us considering how much labour time it will save us BUT – the killer here is there is a minimum order of 100m = £6’720:00  FFS! - We would end up with 73m surplus to requirements at a cost of £4’905:00 sat on the workshop floor!  So unless there is another boat owner out there that wants 73m of the stuff it is currently a No Go – Really Griffin – You don’t say!

Griff

[Robin]

Hi Griff

From a professional wood butchers view i would raise the following points.

by wanting the finished size to be 25mm thick, 38mm thick stock is needed which equates to 13mm of timber which is turned into sawdust! one third wasted. however the norm would be to use 25mm thick stock, when planned, finishes  about  22mm thick which only wastes 3mm or about an eighth. it could save you a few bob!

i would also ask what lengths it will be supplied in as you want to minimize the joints along the hull.

The thinner timber would be easier to bend around the hull as well.

Will you be machining it yourself?

Robin

 

[JanetAnne]

Tim Collin Wroxham

He has the wood you need in stock and can probably get it machined ready. I was with him last week and he thought he could help.

Is all this laminating layers necessary though? I have no idea as to what your plans are but that does look a lot of work to someone probably not aware of the full facts (me)!

 

[BroadAmbition]

Hi Chaps,

Tks for the questions / advice.  Lengths supplied - no idea at present as no order has been placed.  Machining myself? - Sort of, at your place with guidance /  assistance!

I shall certainly be in touch with Tim Collin at Wroxham.  Laminating - certainly around the bow area, not so much other areas. Only laminating if I have no option really, some areas to my eye, we will have to steam / laminate but more than happy to be advised otherwise.  The middle and lower rubbers will need to be about the same thickness they are at present.  There is scope to reduce the thickness of the top rubber and maybe reduce down to two thirds of the present thickness

Ideally I could do with you two having a visit to the wetshed when I'm there to discuss / advise the way ahead in plenty of time before April tbh.  Your road fuel & time costs I will of course cover

I'm due onboard last weekend of this month but only for a short weekend Fri night through to Sunday afternoon, so not enough time for me to get her down south for you to view as well as the other items onboard that we want to attend to

Griff

[Robin]

Hi Griff

Sorry, but i don't let anyone play with my machines anymore however I'm happy to machine your timber and you or one of your team can help.

Regarding the length of timber. you should specify long lengths when ordering or you could end up with 10fts which would make for a lot of joints. the longer they are the easier it is to bend round.

I'm currently bending rubbing strakes round a Bourne  hull and can advise the bow will need laminating about 1m from the tip then the front section to midships will need steaming, with the aft section going straight on.

You need to allow 150mm overlaps for all the scarf joints.

You will have your work cutout to complete all this in your time frame so if you can get it machined before you arrive all the better.

Happy to meet at the wet shed when you are next down.

Robin

[BrundallNavy]

18 minutes ago, Robin said:

Hi Griff

Sorry, but i don't let anyone play with my machines anymore however I'm happy to machine your timber and you or one of your team can help.

Regarding the length of timber. you should specify long lengths when ordering or you could end up with 10fts which would make for a lot of joints. the longer they are the easier it is to bend round.

I'm currently bending rubbing strakes round a Bourne  hull and can advise the bow will need laminating about 1m from the tip then the front section to midships will need steaming, with the aft section going straight on.

You need to allow 150mm overlaps for all the scarf joints.

You will have your work cutout to complete all this in your time frame so if you can get it machined before you arrive all the better.

Happy to meet at the wet shed when you are next down.

Robin

I can come over and help you machine it if required Robin. 

[BroadAmbition]

Nice one chaps.  Sounds good to me

Griff

[AndyTBoater]

Robin is doing a sterling job on my Bourne hull. Might be worth popping down to see how he is fitting my rubbing strikes. The laminated bit around the front is much more complicated than it looks.