Corona Virus

[Poppy]

It's not just cancer, either !

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249241/Nearly-40-000-hospital-beds-lie-operations-treatments-cancelled.html

[Meantime]

So the government get criticised for not being prepared and now there're being criticised for being prepared! Perhaps the people on the frontline of the NHS need a moment to pause, breathe and prepare for getting on with some of the more routine tasks, or the next wave of COVID-19 onslaught if the virus takes off again. Whichever it is the Dailyfail will always criticise with the benefit of hindsight.  

[Poppy]

Just now, EastCoastIPA said:

So the government get criticised for not being prepared and now there're being criticised for being prepared! Perhaps the people on the frontline of the NHS need a moment to pause, breathe and prepare for getting on with some of the more routine tasks, or the next wave of COVID-19 onslaught if the virus takes off again. Whichever it is the Dailyfail will always criticise with the benefit of hindsight.  

EIPA - I was simply pointing out the gaping hole in your argument that allowing cycling on the grounds of benefit to the NHS ,and how it appears (to me anyhow ) an attempt to justify a preferred form of leisure activity for some, whilst there are far more worrying health issues which are not being addressed.

I had a cardiac pacemaker fitted last December, and an atrial node ablation in February. This means that I am depenent on the pacemaker. It was very heavily stressed to me at follow up that I MUST attend for regular pacemaker checks as these were vital.

My appointment for the next one was in September. That has been cancelled. My new one isn't until NEXT MARCH !.

There are many like me with non virus conditions who need treatment, attention or monitoring who aren't getting it !

[Paul]

8 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

So the government get criticised for not being prepared

I'm not sure anyone can criticise the government for not being prepared for such an extraordinary event. What they were is ready with plans in place which could be adapted and made to fit the crisis that ensued. The speed with which additional hospitals were made ready was outstanding. Now it appears we may not need all of these extra beds, lets hope that is the case. Someone will I have no doubt criticise the cost of all this work if not. 

In hindsight there are things which we might have done differently or done better, but hindsight is nobodies friend. 

I guess these are the same people who complain on those rare occasions when snow blocks our roads and tell you how Norway's road remain clear and passable every year despite days of snowfall but who ignore the fact that Norway spends huge amounts of money to tackle what for them is a regular occurrence, the same people who would then complain if our Government spent billions of pounds of there money on equipment to deal with what is generally a less than once a year occurrence. 

They moan and criticise because that is the limit of their intelligence, it's all they know how to do. 

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, Poppy said:

EIPA - I was simply pointing out the gaping hole in your argument that allowing cycling on the grounds of benefit to the NHS ,and how it appears (to me anyhow ) an attempt to justify a preferred form of leisure activity for some, whilst there are far more worrying health issues which are not being addressed.

I had a cardiac pacemaker fitted last December, and an atrial node ablation in February. This means that I am depenent on the pacemaker. It was very heavily stressed to me at follow up that I MUST attend for regular pacemaker checks as these were vital.

My appointment for the next one was in September. That has been cancelled. My new one isn't until NEXT MARCH !.

There are many like me with non virus conditions who need treatment, attention or monitoring who aren't getting it !

Ok if your going to mis quote just parts of what I said to suit whatever aim you have, then your on your own in this discussion. I was not just referring to cycling, but all the forms of exercise that the government has quite clearly said is allowed. I was not and never had just advocated cycling, however stopping people from cycling, walking, running or jogging is not going to make the NHS start up routine treatments again, but could just add to the future burden on the NHS.

I sympathise with your last few paragraphs and fully agree with the last one. I'm sure we all know someone deeply affected by the cancellation of routine NHS treatments, but these are very unusual times.

[floydraser]

22 minutes ago, Poppy said:

My appointment for the next one was in September. That has been cancelled. My new one isn't until NEXT MARCH !.

There are many like me with non virus conditions who need treatment, attention or monitoring who aren't getting it !

You are getting it, in March. That's because a very qualified person in the NHS has made the decision that your monitoring is not urgent. 

[floydraser]

1 hour ago, EastCoastIPA said:

It has to be remembered that being overweight or obese plays a very big part in underlying health conditions. A very large proportion of the people who have sadly died from COVID-19 had underlying health conditions. Exercise is an extremely important part of keeping fit and keeping weight under control as well as improving general fitness. Anything that improves lung capacity will give you more of a fighting chance if you catch this disease.

Not everyone has access to a garden, or the budget to suddenly go out and buy an exercise bike or treadmill.

I agree with the above. But maybe there are a lot of people out there who have ignored the vast amount of advice on the need to look after their own health BEFORE this crisis, who would be in a far better state to resist, if they had headed it?

How many people have treatment for blood circulation problems then carry on smoking for instance? I know several.

[marshman]

Poppy - I was delighted to hear the other night from a local consultant talking on Look East I think, that they are already beginning to talk about restarting more operations and procedures. Talking to a nurse of mine (well not of mine so to speak) on the general side, she was saying how relatively quiet they are and how even the Covid side was a tad quieter too. However I suspect they don't want to switch too much back to "normal" at the moment in case numbers pop back up again and they have to set up the Covid side  to cater for higher numbers again, just yet!

Meanwhile I long to get back to my only hobby, if only to clean it! The trouble is that whilst the roads are so busy I might be in an accident even if I drive 5 miles and whilst I am in splendid isolation at home, and would be on the boat, I do understand the logic - not!!!!  ( And please do not shout at me in CAPITAL letters  in response to my comments - I am not deaf and can read small print  as long as I have my specs on!! )

 

[Poppy]

7 minutes ago, marshman said:

 

Meanwhile I long to get back to my only hobby, if only to clean it! The trouble is that whilst the roads are so busy I might be in an accident even if I drive 5 miles and whilst I am in splendid isolation at home, and would be on the boat, I do understand the logic - not!!!!  ( And please do not shout at me in CAPITAL letters  in response to my comments - I am not deaf and can read small print  as long as I have my specs on!! )

 

Me neither

[MauriceMynah]

The actions the government has taken seem to be working. Whether they'd have worked better if cycling (or other permitted exercises) had been banned will never be known. but things are improving.

I have no doubt that there will be many complaints come the inevitable "post mortum" and the press (for whom hindsight is a great friend) will hang out to dry, as many political names as they can.

In my opinion, Her majesty's government and the opposition parties have all behaved admirably, honourably and tirelessly in the face of not just a national, but a world wide disaster.

[SteveO]

I was amused to read in last Saturday's Telegraph that one of the London agencies for domestic staff has set up an advice line for people who have had to furlough their butler, cook, nanny, housekeeper and now don't know what to do/how to make a bed/open a bottle of wine/clean house/ which end of a child to put the food in.  This sort of hardship certainly puts my problems into perspective! 

[grendel]

I think the issue is that if you see it as ok to do a 5 mile drive to your boat, someone will notice and take your example to do the 10 mile trip to their boat, and pretty soon someone is seeing it as ok to do the 400 mile trip to their boat to work on it, which is exactly the scenario that the government are trying to stop.

[Poppy]

Driving 'where far more time is spent walking than driving' .  I doubt that an 800 mile round trip would fit into that description !

[webntweb]

1 hour ago, Poppy said:

I had a cardiac pacemaker fitted last December, and an atrial node ablation in February. This means that I am depenent on the pacemaker. It was very heavily stressed to me at follow up that I MUST attend for regular pacemaker checks as these were vital.

My appointment for the next one was in September. That has been cancelled. My new one isn't until NEXT MARCH !.

There are many like me with non virus conditions who need treatment, attention or monitoring who aren't getting it !

Have you tried speaking to your pacemaker clinic.

I was due a pacemaker check in March and the clinic contacted me and told me they were sending me a portable monitor which I keep until normal service is resumed. It is very simple to use, just plug it in, hold it over your pacemaker and wait for a tick to appear on the display which tells you that the information has been successfully uploaded to the clinic via your home wifi. Some of these monitors will also upload the info through a smartphone.

They cost the NHS less than £40 each.

On my last hospital check in September of last year I was told that my pacemaker battery had at least a year left so I will be contacting them again in about 3 months to ask if I can do another upload for them to check battery level.

Similarly, I have two or three week INR checks at the hospital Coagulation clinic. While this clinic won't fund home INR machines they will accept the results if you buy your own of the same make as the ones they use. These machines cost £300 each so I have bought one and my GP will supply the consumables on prescription. This means I now only have to make one more visit to the clinic so they can calibrate my machine to theirs and make sure I am using it properly.

Each time I use the INR machine I then email the clinic with my result and they will email me back with any adjustments in my Warfarin dose, which I then pass on to my GP for my next prescription.

Some of these machines are also capable of uploading their results to the clinic, but I don't know yet if mine can as I have only just received it, so its still in its 72 hour anti-virus isolation until tomorrow.

So if all goes well after my next visit, I will only need to go to clinic once a year instead of every two or three weeks.

 

[JennyMorgan]

One condition that has not been mentioned is that of depression. Another five or six months of this, who knows, but some one who does have underlying problems and is cooped up in their house, well, I do have some sympathies with such folk. Depriving them of hobbies, as is happening for some, is hardly likely to improve their well-being. Back to back TV can wear a bit thin!

[Poppy]

18 minutes ago, webntweb said:

Have you tried speaking to your pacemaker clinic.

I was due a pacemaker check in March and the clinic contacted me and told me they were sending me a portable monitor which I keep until normal service is resumed. It is very simple to use, just plug it in, hold it over your pacemaker and wait for a tick to appear on the display which tells you that the information has been successfully uploaded to the clinic via your home wifi. Some of these monitors will also upload the info through a smartphone.

They cost the NHS less than £40 each.

On my last hospital check in September of last year I was told that my pacemaker battery had at least a year left so I will be contacting them again in about 3 months to ask if I can do another upload for them to check battery level.

Similarly, I have two or three week INR checks at the hospital Coagulation clinic. While this clinic won't fund home INR machines they will accept the results if you buy your own of the same make as the ones they use. These machines cost £300 each so I have bought one and my GP will supply the consumables on prescription. This means I now only have to make one more visit to the clinic so they can calibrate my machine to theirs and make sure I am using it properly.

Each time I use the INR machine I then email the clinic with my result and they will email me back with any adjustments in my Warfarin dose, which I then pass on to my GP for my next prescription.

Some of these machines are also capable of uploading their results to the clinic, but I don't know yet if mine can as I have only just received it, so its still in its 72 hour anti-virus isolation until tomorrow.

So if all goes well after my next visit, I will only need to go to clinic once a year instead of every two or three weeks.

 

I asked about remote monitoring when I had the ablation carried out an the N&N, and was told that they do use them, but only for a particular patient group , those being the ones with ICDs, a type of device that incorporates a defibrilator. 

I am lucky in that I don't need INR checks as I'm on apixaban, one of the new anticoagulants. No neet for me to worry about what I eat, drink or anything unlike warfarin patients.

[Meantime]

28 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Depriving them of hobbies, as is happening for some, is hardly likely to improve their well-being. Back to back TV can wear a bit thin!

An interesting choice of word. At the moment the government has introduced a lockdown to protect the NHS and protect as many people as possible, whilst recognising the health benefits of exercise and the positive effects on health and well being.

However lockdown is not going to make this virus go away, it may slow the spread to a trickle, but we are going to have to learn to live with it until an effective vaccine is found and then there are all kinds of discussions around how do you vaccinate 67 million people and in what order, those who are most vulnerable, or those at the frontline, or those that can get the economy moving again and various other groups in between. The point being that once the government starts to ease or remove restrictions there may well be activities that someone may evaluate as too risky for them until they are vaccinated.

I have to be honest and say that I like visiting pubs, but I cannot see them being reopened for some time, being some of the last places to reopen. However thinking back to how crowded pubs in London get, how crowded my local gets on a Friday or Saturday night, how packed they all are on Christmas Eve etc, I will more than likely be depriving myself of a visit to the pub when they do reopen until I've hopefully been vaccinated. I think the sensible amongst us will all have to do some personal evaluation on the risks they want to take, once restrictions are eased, and not just assume that because the government now says we can do something, it is 100% safe to. The government will lift restrictions at a time when the NHS can cope and risks are lower, but they will be doing that in balance with restarting the economy and therefore personal judgements will also need to be made. 

[RealWindmill]

3 hours ago, EastCoastIPA said:

It has to be remembered that being overweight or obese plays a very big part in underlying health conditions. A very large proportion of the people who have sadly died from COVID-19 had underlying health conditions. Exercise is an extremely important part of keeping fit and keeping weight under control as well as improving general fitness. Anything that improves lung capacity will give you more of a fighting chance if you catch this disease.

Not everyone has access to a garden, or the budget to suddenly go out and buy an exercise bike or treadmill.

Lockdown of the sort you are suggesting has the potential to add to the death toll. For the vast majority there is no confusion, we know we can walk, jog, run or cycle, even if that does get up the nose of those who want to wind surf, kayak, canoe, row a boat, swing a golf club etc.

Don't follow your logic at all about potential to add to the death toll. ' My ' lockdown scenario still keeps everyone who is physically able to fit and mentally stimulated,  with the bonus of total isolation whilst exercising.

BTW. Just back from my dog walk on the local cliffs and beach. Several groups of younger cyclists riding up and down the trails, also groups picnicking. Even campervan man has turned up again for the weekend ! So they would appear very confused about the advice - or they don't care.

[Meantime]

Would your lockdown scenario include not walking your dog? or is that just the one form of exercise you would allow because it suits your needs?

Campervan man and picnicking is not about confusion, but ignoring the instructions to stay at home unless you are out for one of the few reasons the government has given.

[RealWindmill]

I don't think my needs are the issue here really are they.

The issue is about exercise and isolation. my experience locally is that all dog walkers are remarkably respectful of distance rules etc.

Before you accuse me of chosing to allow dog walking in preference to other activities remember we are allowed out for reasons like shopping, helping neighbours etc. I walk my neighbours dog. The scenario I made was of individual exercising which can be done indoors just as well.  Dog walking is an outdoor only activity.

[Poppy]

I've observed over a range of social networking sites just how many people who have emerged who would have fitted in very well indeed in the old DDR ot somewhere like Albania in the past.

[Poppy]

[RealWindmill]

Brilliant Poppy.  Love it.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Well one of those that can't leave the house until at least the middle of June.I will get my exercise tomorrow. I'm doing the 2.6 Challenge in aid of the RNLI.You can join me if you like.I'm looking for sponsorship.

[Poppy]

Intrtesting report.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52403772

"It is noticeable UK chief medical adviser Prof Chris Witty has talked often recently about "indirect deaths".

These are deaths not from coronavirus but related to the lockdown: people who cannot access care for other conditions, such as cancer, strokes or heart attacks, and those who take their own lives or suffer ill-health because of emotional struggles and the economic downturn.

Steps will be needed to safeguard against these, and, therefore, it is perhaps unsurprising that Sir Patrick says it is difficult to speculate how many will eventually die."