Look Out Norfolk, Chris Packham Is Back Again!

[Wussername]

The seagull is very food orientated and will gravitate to locations with a high density of people such as the sea front at Grt Yarmouth,  Lowestoft and so on. Plenty of food thrown into the gutter, purposely thrown to the bird in some instances. On some of our remote beaches you rarely see them if at all. So it is not every beach in the land.

There was an instance in Norwich a few years ago. Problems with the urban fox. People used to feed them, the young would frolic on the lawn. They became a serious problem.

The council, after many complaints, captured some of them, and in order to provide them with a quality of life had them released on Buckenham marsh.

They were discovered by the local game keeper. Starving, covered in mange by the level crossing. There are no dustbins on the marsh. Nobody fed them. Nobody knew they were there. The foxes did not know how to hunt. 

I arrived at the Hall where we allways gathered for the weekly shoot. Surrounding the large oak tree were the bodies of ten foxes. Joe, the game keeper had no option. Let them suffer or to put them out of their misery. He choose the latter.

The country folk, who had gathered round the tree understood.

 

[Oddfellow]

14 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

Chris Packham along with his co hosts does a good job of presenting a programme that illustrates the beauty of nature to the general public which for many will be both educational and hopefully install a lifelong interest.

Where it goes wrong is that he along with numerous others keeps preaching the same old same old, its got to the point where you can't turn on the tv anymore without someone trying to tell us we are doomed, I don't deny that we could do things better but if we don't know the issues now we never will, its got to the stage now that a lot of people will switch of mentally out  of boredom the message has become stale and is losing its impact, it should be remembered less is often more.

Fred

I couldn't disagree more. So little has changed despite our apparent wide-spread "knowledge" of what we're doing to the planet. 

We don't have time for "softly softly catchy monkey". Those days are long gone. There absolutely needs to be pressure on the government, on supermarkets, on building developers, on landowners, on everyone to do their bit because very few of us are doing enough. It's too easy to lurch back into our old norms. Complacency will kill us. 

We all need reminding until we don't need reminding any more. 

[rightsaidfred]

10 minutes ago, Oddfellow said:

I couldn't disagree more. So little has changed despite our apparent wide-spread "knowledge" of what we're doing to the planet. 

We don't have time for "softly softly catchy monkey". Those days are long gone. There absolutely needs to be pressure on the government, on supermarkets, on building developers, on landowners, on everyone to do their bit because very few of us are doing enough. It's too easy to lurch back into our old norms. Complacency will kill us. 

We all need reminding until we don't need reminding any more. 

And that is where the divide comes, on one side I would suggest there are large numbers of rational people who accept that we need to make improvements where and when there are realistic and sustainable alternatives bearing in mind we all still need to live and maintain a balanced life.

On the other hand we have those including various eco groups with their the end is nigh banners that want a headlong rush into changing  the world including totally unrealistic and unachievable measures who because they shout loudest get the media attention they crave and because they go where they think the votes are a lot of politicians.

To preempt the next statement as to the number of businesses that have jumped on the bandwagon, what is the biggest growth industry?  Answer Climate change and all its ancillarys.

Fred

[grendel]

when i see statements such as the problem was brought upon us by people who thought they were doing the right thing but in their ignorance were in fact not,

then we look at how the modern campaigners are trying to resolve the problem, by doing the right thing, how do we know that what is currently considered the right thing indeed is the right thing to do, or are we acting with ignorance once again?we may understand more, but will we be judged by the next generation as miguided fools who thought they were doing the best things for the planet.

how do we avoid this trap that our predecessors fell into.

[YnysMon]

The problem is we are (as usual) trying to overcomplicate things. It's all about consumption.

When I look back at how my grandparents lived - no car, only purchased what they needed, it's a stark contrast to how Graham and I live our lives. Just considering food. I have kitchen cupboards and fridge/freezer stuffed with food and have to do a clear-out every year to chuck out things that have gone out of date. Grandparents bought what they needed for each day's meals plus restocking on basic things like flour and sugar. A tin of ham and tin of fruit were kept in the cupboard in case unexpected guests turned up for tea, but that was about it. Otherwise the cupboard was bare, and they had lived through two wars, so knew all about food shortages. 

Have I changed my habits? No, so I'm as guilty as the next person. We do try to recycle, grow our own veg and so on, but that's a small gesture. 

[FairTmiddlin]

Add don't get me started on the two possibly worst government decisions in the 20th century.

The decision to allow coypu to be allowed to be farmed in Norfolk wetlands for their fur. We all know the great that that caused.

And the good old Ministry of Ag, fish and food for the idea that, because it worked in the USA and Mexico. It would be good to introduce Myxomatosis into the UK. Thence decimating the food larder, of just about every person living in the country. We went from hunting them with a 4-10, to hunting them with a spade. 

[grendel]

3 hours ago, YnysMon said:

The problem is we are (as usual) trying to overcomplicate things. It's all about consumption.

When I look back at how my grandparents lived - no car, only purchased what they needed, it's a stark contrast to how Graham and I live our lives. Just considering food. I have kitchen cupboards and fridge/freezer stuffed with food and have to do a clear-out every year to chuck out things that have gone out of date. Grandparents bought what they needed for each day's meals plus restocking on basic things like flour and sugar. A tin of ham and tin of fruit were kept in the cupboard in case unexpected guests turned up for tea, but that was about it. Otherwise the cupboard was bare, and they had lived through two wars, so knew all about food shortages. 

Have I changed my habits? No, so I'm as guilty as the next person. We do try to recycle, grow our own veg and so on, but that's a small gesture. 

my parents have always maintained a healhy pantry, with enough of most items to last them several months if necessary (I think that may stem from going through shortages and rationing through the war), their diet is quite regulated so if they use 3 tins of luncheon meat, it is replaced with 3 tins of luncheon meat, they probably hold a stock of 6-10 of each tinned food.

The other thing I remember from my youth, is that foodstuffs were bought loose or in paper bags, and you took your own bags shopping, no plastic packaging, liquids were bought in glass bottles, not plastic.

[Coryton]

4 hours ago, FairTmiddlin said:

And the good old Ministry of Ag, fish and food for the idea that, because it worked in the USA and Mexico. It would be good to introduce Myxomatosis into the UK. Thence decimating the food larder, of just about every person living in the country. We went from hunting them with a 4-10, to hunting them with a spade. 

Interesting.

My understanding was that it was deliberately introduced to France by an estate owner and then spread across Europe - almost certainly with some help. But the government's role was a futile attempt to prevent the spread.

See this for example.

[CambridgeCabby]

When people can learn to only eat seasonal produce instead of insisting that supermarkets stock such items as  asparagus (from Mexico) new potatoes (from South Africa) etc etc , so they can have them all year round we are fighting a losing battle , only last week on local television there was a report about the accepted waste an importer permits with their supplier of grapes , which are imported from Columbia it’s 30%!!!!!!

Where has the joy of waiting for the strawberry season gone , the anticipation of the first new potatoes of the season , sadly the convenience of the “ding dinner” has bred a generation whose expectations are immediate and an unwillingness to wait.

It is possible to feed oneself on locally produced products , albeit sadly at a monetary price but the price to our planet in the long run by not doing so is far greater .

[Coryton]

16 minutes ago, CambridgeCabby said:

n locally produced products , albeit sadly at a monetary price but the price to our planet in the long run by not doing so is far greater .

I think it says something about our society that supermarkets work very hard so that we have the same fresh food all the year round, and then we have artificially "seasonal" food like Cadbury's cream eggs.

 

[rightsaidfred]

As it seems we only have 10 years left to save the planet could someone please find a way to stop the volcano that is  currently using up this and possibly next years allocation.

Fred

[ranworthbreeze]

15 hours ago, grendel said:

my parents have always maintained a healhy pantry, with enough of most items to last them several months if necessary (I think that may stem from going through shortages and rationing through the war), their diet is quite regulated so if they use 3 tins of luncheon meat, it is replaced with 3 tins of luncheon meat, they probably hold a stock of 6-10 of each tinned food.

The other thing I remember from my youth, is that foodstuffs were bought loose or in paper bags, and you took your own bags shopping, no plastic packaging, liquids were bought in glass bottles, not plastic.

Shopping in those days took an age, I remember going in the Co-op with my Nan butter, lard was weighed and put in greaseproof paper and sugar & flour were weighed and put in blue paper bags. If you wanted none food items you had to queue up on the other side of the shop.

The greengrocers was an other experience where the vegetables were all put in your shopping bag the heaviest first.

Shopping was done in several shops and you only bought to last you a couple of days, there were no fridges at this time and perishables were kept on the stone slab in the pantry.

 

 

 

[Vaughan]

10 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Shopping in those days took an age, I remember going in the Co-op with my Nan butter, lard was weighed and put in greaseproof paper and sugar & flour were weighed and put in blue paper bags. If you wanted none food items you had to queue up on the other side of the shop.

This sounds very much like Parker's stores used to be, on the River Green at Thorpe.  It was later bought by H. Rout, who converted it into one of the first mini supermarkets in Norfolk, where there were two aisles from which you could select your own items.  "Open all hours" reminds me of it!

I was very lucky in that my parents had a big garden on the island, most of which was all sorts of vegetables.  We had a full time gardener, who did the garden in summer, trial runs on Saturdays, and painted boats in the winter. My mother reared about 200 chickens on the island and sold the eggs, and if we wanted game or other meat, my father went out and shot it!

So we had the the delights of home grown produce, when the season came round.  Strawberries, raspberries, apples, pears, blackcurrant, marrows, melons and tomatoes from the greenhouse. In particular, asparagus in butter, with little new potatoes.  I will never forget the taste of my mother's marrow and ginger jam.  Quite unique.

If you think about it, all the food at Christmas is traditional, simply because it was all you could get at that time of year.  Brussels sprouts, cabbage, preserved dates from the Orient, crystallised fruits and all sorts of preserves.

I think there is a lot of pleasure in eating food in its right season.

[annv]

Oh for my Grandmothers jam and her Piccalilli and treacle pudding in a cloth!! We had eggs, bacon, fried potatoes  and sausages for breakfast,  then meat,  vegg and pudding for dinner, then bread and butter,  jam, and  cake for tea then cheese and biscuits for supper and although my parent's and grandparent's were on the well built side you never seemed to put on weight. If i had a quarter of that today i would be enormous. John 

[YnysMon]

I've been hopeless this year and hardly used the raspberries off the allotment. Most of our plums went to waste too. Normally I make lots of jam and chutney, the majority of which used to end up on stalls on the church fete or the band's annual fete. Both got put off due to Covid, so that's me with lots of raspberry jam and plum chutney from last year still on my hands.

[YnysMon]

Just been reading an online magazine and came across this list of 14 practical things to help:

1. Buy only what you need. Save time and money as well as the Earth.

2. Watch David Attenborough’s A Life on Our Planet.

3. Turn your heating down and wear a jumper.

4. Buy second-hand clothes from charity shops.

5. Start a compost heap to reduce the waste you send to landfill.

6. Slow down. Driving at 50mph uses 25% less fuel than 70mph.

7. Save water – only do full loads in your washing machine.

8. Shop at farmer's markets and buy food that was produced locally.

9. Choose energy-efficient appliances when you replace old ones.

10. Wild your garden, don’t deck it over.

11. Have one car-free day per week.

12. Join a local environmental group or campaign

13. Use eco-friendly washing-up liquid and washing powder.

14. Grow your own food if you can.

[Paul]

6 hours ago, YnysMon said:

Shop at farmer's markets and buy food that was produced locally.

I tried that once, bought an "artisan" loaf, a kilo of carrots, a chicken and 2 cabbages and it cost me sixty quid. I barely had enough cash left to fill the range rover with diesel. 

[Vaughan]

10 hours ago, Paul said:

I tried that once, bought an "artisan" loaf, a kilo of carrots, a chicken and 2 cabbages and it cost me sixty quid. I barely had enough cash left to fill the range rover with diesel. 

I quite agree!  Have you ever tried buying fresh asparagus from those little roadside caravans in Norfolk?  I only did it once!

[TheQ]

18 hours ago, YnysMon said:

Just been reading an online magazine and came across this list of 14 practical things to help:

1. Buy only what you need. Save time and money as well as the Earth.

Always have done.

2. Watch David Attenborough’s A Life on Our Planet. 

Have done

3. Turn your heating down and wear a jumper.

Our heating is at 17C we couldn't afford more..

4. Buy second-hand clothes from charity shops.

Some are, we always wear clothing till worn out

5. Start a compost heap to reduce the waste you send to landfill.

We have two.. and a compost maker bin

6. Slow down. Driving at 50mph uses 25% less fuel than 70mph.

We're in Norfolk..is there a speed above 50mph?

7. Save water – only do full loads in your washing machine.

Most modern washing machines weigh the contents and only put in the water required, so this one is nonsense.

8. Shop at farmer's markets and buy food that was produced locally.

We do, but half the stuff there isn't local anyway.

9. Choose energy-efficient appliances when you replace old ones.

Always have done

10. Wild your garden, don’t deck it over.

Have you seen my garden you'll, struggle to get from one end to the other, this also contradicts 14

11. Have one car-free day per week.

That's Saturday, boat work day

12. Join a local environmental group or campaign

NO

13. Use eco-friendly washing-up liquid and washing powder.

It has to be the house has a cess pit..

14. Grow your own food if you can.

if you can stop the wildlife eating it.. deer / rabbits / hares / squirrels / Pheasants / pigeons.

 

[Smoggy]

15 minutes ago, TheQ said:

14. Grow your own food if you can.

if you can stop the wildlife eating it.. deer / rabbits / hares / squirrels / Pheasants / pigeons.

Eat more deer / rabbits / hares / squirrels / Pheasants / pigeons.

[Bikertov]

27 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Eat more deer / rabbits / hares / squirrels / Pheasants / pigeons.

LOL - a good friend of mine does that.

He shoots all that sorts of things, as he a gamekeeper for various farmers and landowners, and can keep/eat his kills if he wants. 

Although he tends not to keep the rats he sometimes has to shoot 

[grendel]

my advice is just to be wary of those who claim to know how to fix the problem, they are no different to those who in the past laid such claims and caused a great deal of the problems we are trying to manage nowadays.

 

[rightsaidfred]

55 minutes ago, grendel said:

my advice is just to be wary of those who claim to know how to fix the problem, they are no different to those who in the past laid such claims and caused a great deal of the problems we are trying to manage nowadays.

 

Couldn't agree more, far to much rhetoric  with unrealistic proposals and to many just swallowing it leading to the extremists we now suffer from.

Fred

[ExSurveyor]

Grendal, I was thinking the same as I watched a very healthy black mink walking along the pontoon this morning, might explain the deminished levels of ducks around here.

[grendel]

This of course doesnt mean we should sit back and do nothing, but if each person takes responsibility for their own actions, reduces their reliance on single use platics and tries to  avoid damageing our environment, then that will in my mind be far better in the long run than any enforced legislation might be, rather than setting unrealistic targets, or trying to rush things through. let us look back to look forward, take a cloth or string bag shopping for veg, just like my parents used to, when it comes to buying things I have more second hand stuff than new, I go to boot fairs, buy what I want there, if it breaks I fix it, not throw away and buy new (not that much these days is still fixable- but then I will buy older stuff that can be repaired.