Covid19 Booster

[Meantime]

12 minutes ago, ZimbiIV said:

Simple.

No hole in the arm no dole!

paul

WOW!!!!!! is all I can say to that. So as long as you have a job, but don't want the vaccine that's ok?

I sometimes wonder about the people in charge, but on balance you have to be grateful!!!!

[ZimbiIV]

58 minutes ago, Meantime said:

WOW!!!!!! is all I can say to that. So as long as you have a job, but don't want the vaccine that's ok?

I sometimes wonder about the people in charge, but on balance you have to be grateful!!!!

I should have added the rider EVER.

paul

[Ray]

2 hours ago, Ray said:

@ MM Would you extend that to smokers, drinkers, sportsmen and women? 

Quoting my own post because I can't edit it 🙂

Reading it back it appears confrontational, that was not my intention. The idea of paying the NHS for treatment of conditions which may be thought of by some as reckless or foolhardy has been mooted at different times over the years and I was interested to know whether adopting it in it's wider sense was part of Marshman's thinking when he posted.

[RumPunch]

Well yesterday lunchtime I had my Pfizer booster, having originally had AZ for first two. Bit headachy and lethargic today, but nothing too bad.

Getting really annoyed though by the number of people still not wearing masks in supermarkets. I accept some may not have to, but the majority of those not complying that I have seen are young men, often in pairs or groups, and normally dressed casually rather than smartly ( my 18 year old daughter describes them as 'road men' but that's a bit outside my vocabulary )

[marshman]

Reading in a publication the other day about unvaccinated people, it was compared to deliberately leaving the light on during the Blitz. Your actions may not affect you, but could be devastating, and/or deadly for those around you. As a result wardens patrolled to ensure it did not happen - now I am not advocating wardens, but it would be nice to see police helping to enforce it where necessary.

I like Rum Punch's daughters comment!!!

[Meantime]

29 minutes ago, marshman said:

Reading in a publication the other day about unvaccinated people, it was compared to deliberately leaving the light on during the Blitz. Your actions may not affect you, but could be devastating, and/or deadly for those around you. As a result wardens patrolled to ensure it did not happen - now I am not advocating wardens, but it would be nice to see police helping to enforce it where necessary.

I like Rum Punch's daughters comment!!!

But it's not really the same thing though is it? If being double vaccinated and having the booster avoids serious disease then you have done your part in protecting yourself. If the virus evades the vaccine then can we really force others to have the vaccine against their will?

They are saying that being double vaccinated and even with the booster you can still spread the disease, so would you advocate another full lockdown?

They are saying that 4 out of 5 ICU beds are occupied by people that are not vaccinated so really they are only doing their self harm by not taking the vaccine but that is their personal choice.

All you can do is your best and get on with life whilst following all the current guidelines. I've recently spent 6 days on The Broads and took all reasonable precautions when in public places. I've taken 5 LFT tests in the last 8 days due to being in busier places including hospitality and all including the last one taken today were negative. Myself and the friend I was with have both been pinged by the NHS app for being in close contact with someone on the 3rd December who has since tested positive for COVID. Apart from being on the boat that day we visited one pub, which I shall not name, so we are fairly certain it was another customer or member of staff. As per the advice of the app, and because we are double vaccinated we do not need to self isolate at this point in time. It recommended we book a PCR test which we have done and mine was completed an hour ago. My friend has also completed a number of LFT tests and all were negative. So I'm reasonably confident the PCR test will also be negative, but have followed the NHS advice anyway. 

[grendel]

well due to the latest government guidelines, our office christmas meal has been cancelled, and they are seriously considering whether some in person training will go ahead next wednesday too, i had already proactively declined the training as soon as the announcement was made, as a clinically extremely vulnerable person, and my boss agreed fully with that decision.

[Hylander]

I am pleased to report that Morrisons in Beccles , as you go into the store there is a sign right across where you walk and it says , to enter the store you must be wearing a mask and if you have not got one, one will be provided.  That is why I feel so safe in there,  everyone wearing masks and certainly deliberately keeping their distance,  really jumping out of the way if you came near.  People are getting really worried about this.

 

 

[BroadAmbition]

They are saying that 4 out of 5 ICU beds are occupied by people that are not vaccinated so really they are only doing their self harm by not taking the vaccine but that is their personal choice.

Wrong, wrong and thrice wrong.  Yes it is their personal choice BUT the selfish un vaccinated are taking up beds that could be allocated to others for non covid issues.  They are also taking up a massive amount of staff & nurses caring for them.  If they had been vaccinated and got covid, the chances are they would be at home self isolating and feeling rubbish at worst.

Yes, this is a rant 

Griff

[Meantime]

19 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

Yes it is their personal choice BUT the selfish un vaccinated are taking up beds that could be allocated to others for non covid issues.

And what about the selfish smokers, the selfish alcoholics, the selfish drug abusers and the selfish people that over eat to the point that they get diabetes and need hip or knee replacements. All those also place a huge burden on the NHS. If it is their right to over indulge in what ever does them no good to the point that they take up NHS beds, then surely the same goes for those who chose not to take the vaccine.

I've had  the vaccine as my personal choice, but I wouldn't want to see anyone forced to take the vaccine against their will, no more than I would expect the Government to ban the sale and smoking of cigarettes or the sale and consumption of alcohol, or for the NHS to refuse to treat anyone who overdoses on recreational drugs, or refuse to treat anyone who has eaten too much.

[floydraser]

3 hours ago, RumPunch said:

Getting really annoyed though by the number of people still not wearing masks in supermarkets. I accept some may not have to, but the majority of those not complying that I have seen are young men, often in pairs or groups, and normally dressed casually rather than smartly ( my 18 year old daughter describes them as 'road men' but that's a bit outside my vocabulary )

And usually, those without masks strut provocativley as if to say, "Go on then, challenge me!"

The knock on effect of all these people ignoring advice and ending up in hospital can't be measured, but it means the cancellation of routine cancer screening. Suddenly we're not as safe as we used to be.

[annv]

Any body who refuses to be vaccinated for no good reason should be denied hospital treatment for covid, women on telly last night caught covid. Now in hospital said she now wished she had had the vaccine she had been there for weeks then complained that she wasnt aloud to see her baby!!!!!!  John

[Meantime]

6 minutes ago, annv said:

Any body who refuses to be vaccinated for no good reason should be denied hospital treatment for covid, women on telly last night caught covid. Now in hospital said she now wished she had had the vaccine she had been there for weeks then complained that she wasnt aloud to see her baby!!!!!!  John

And what about those who refuse to go on a diet, do we refuse them hip and knee replacements? We are the most obese country in Europe and only just behind America. Do we refuse cancer treatment to smokers?

And I saw that news article last night and the woman wasn't complaining about not being allowed to see her child, she said that she had missed the first four weeks of her childs life due to her being in a coma, there is a difference between not being able to, and not being allowed to.

[grendel]

can we please limit the discussion to the topic, ie Covid, 

as someone who is overweight, I struggle to lose weight due to breathing difficulties as soon as i speed up past a slow walk, which does mean I could claim exemption from wearing a face covering, but I dont claim that, I do however wear a more porous face covering that is not as effective, but show willing.

this means I could take exception to some of the above comments on some grounds - I choose not to take offence, but do realise that some comments could be offensive to some people.

vaccines are the preferred solution, of course. and yes it is selfish of those who have chosen to not vaccinate to take up the hospital beds, but the decision to accept them as patients is not ours to make, that is down to the doctors and nurses who have taken the medical oath to help the sick.

its all too easy to say what should be happening, but do remember that some of the options that some have proposed might well bring about civil disobediance and protests, the government may not be willing to risk that at this time.

[andyg]

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

And what about the selfish smokers, the selfish alcoholics, the selfish drug abusers and the selfish people that over eat to the point that they get diabetes and need hip or knee replacements. All those also place a huge burden on the NHS. If it is their right to over indulge in what ever does them no good to the point that they take up NHS beds, then surely the same goes for those who chose not to take the vaccine.

I've had  the vaccine as my personal choice, but I wouldn't want to see anyone forced to take the vaccine against their will, no more than I would expect the Government to ban the sale and smoking of cigarettes or the sale and consumption of alcohol, or for the NHS to refuse to treat anyone who overdoses on recreational drugs, or refuse to treat anyone who has eaten too 

The nhs do indeed refuse certain treatments if the individual refuses to help themselves ( fact ) selfish smokers and drinkers ? How's that then ?? Both pay heavily in duty to hmrc and last time I looked, the government earn very nicely out of there bad habits even after the cost of treatments ( fact ) go work on the frontline like my wife and listen to what all the jumped up anti vaxers have got say whilst laying in a hospital bed riddle with covid, begging for the vaccine. There the selfish ones 100%....

[marshman]

Andy is quite right - treatment is refused sometimes. perhaps, because people are overweight. For example, any overweight person with a BMI in excess of 30, will not be offered a hernia - or so they told me when I went for my preop.

I have also heard of others who are told they have to lose weight before operations.

We have all heard these "personal freedom" squit arguments  before - as far as I am concerned I don't care about the health of the unvaccinated, until it affects myself or others, by for example, an unvaccinated person using a bed or facilities which could have been available for other very sick people. And there is no shortage of them around being denied their treatment.

 

[Tempest]

3 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

They are saying that 4 out of 5 ICU beds are occupied by people that are not vaccinated so really they are only doing their self harm by not taking the vaccine but that is their personal choice.

Wrong, wrong and thrice wrong.  Yes it is their personal choice BUT the selfish un vaccinated are taking up beds that could be allocated to others for non covid issues.  They are also taking up a massive amount of staff & nurses caring for them.  If they had been vaccinated and got covid, the chances are they would be at home self isolating and feeling rubbish at worst.

Yes, this is a rant 

Griff

Absolutely spot on

You can't refuse treatment to the selfish or those who don't have the intelligence to see what is right on humane grounds, so the only sensible option is offer 2 alternatives

1. Take the vaccine 

Or

2. Remain confined to your home 

Wazza

 

[Mouldy]

If the actions of the unvaccinated cause the numbers in hospital to rise to the extent that additional limitations are imposed on my freedoms, where is the justice in that?  Aside from medical grounds, there are surely no justifiable reasons to refuse the vaccine, unless you are just bloody minded and don’t like being told what to do.

[floydraser]

In this country we have developed a culture where the rights of the individual scores higher than the rights of the masses. I understand it's different in other countries.

[Meantime]

10 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

Aside from medical grounds, there are surely no justifiable reasons to refuse the vaccine, unless you are just bloody minded and don’t like being told what to do.

Its been reported today that a 41 year dad died 11 days after taking the vaccine of a brain haemorrhage likely to have been induced by the vaccine. Whilst thankfully it is extremely rare, there have been other deaths attributed to the vaccine.

It hasn't stopped me taking the vaccine, but can you force anyone to take a vaccine that in extreme cases can cause death. It has to remain a free choice.

[Mouldy]

4 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Its been reported today that a 41 year dad died 11 days after taking the vaccine of a brain haemorrhage likely to have been induced by the vaccine. Whilst thankfully it is extremely rare, there have been other deaths attributed to the vaccine.

It hasn't stopped me taking the vaccine, but can you force anyone to take a vaccine that in extreme cases can cause death. It has to remain a free choice.

When the issue of blood clots following administration of the AZ jab was investigated earlier in the year, if I remember correctly the incidence of the problem was reckoning be about 1 in 100,000.  I wonder what the odds are of contracting Covid and suffering serious illness by comparison.  There is a risk with all medications including everyday items like Aspirin, Paracetamol and Ibuprofen, never mind for prescription medicines.  Do the folk who refuse the vaccine on those grounds also decline to take things that are prescribed, even though they may be to combat high blood pressure, depression or antibiotics?

 

[Tempest]

22 minutes ago, floydraser said:

In this country we have developed a culture where the rights of the individual scores higher than the rights of the masses. I understand it's different in other countries.

Very true but it isn't balanced

You only have to research the horrors rape victims have to endure to see that offenders hold all the cards

In addition, someone may have a history of offences as long as your arm, but you can't mention that, as it is classed as being unfair

I am all for the rights of individuals, but it needs to be balanced and fair to them and society as a whole

That is something we have yet to achieve in Britain.

[ExSurveyor]

We live in an imperfect world, full of imperfect people, governed by imperfect laws.

We will never change them on a Norfolk Broads discussion forum.

Can I draw members attention to Grendel's earlier post,

"can we please limit the discussion to the topic, ie Covid,"

More exactly, to the booster .

Thanks.

[Meantime]

15 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

There is a risk with all medications including everyday items like Aspirin, Paracetamol and Ibuprofen, never mind for prescription medicines.  

That is very true, however it is also true that you have a choice to weigh up the risks and read the accompanying leaflet and then make an informed choice about whether you wish to take the risk no matter how small.

[Mouldy]

3 minutes ago, Meantime said:

That is very true, however it is also true that you have a choice to weigh up the risks and read the accompanying leaflet and then make an informed choice about whether you wish to take the risk no matter how small.

So my point remains the same.  If you have a life threatening condition, which requires daily medication to mitigate (as far as possible) the potential consequences and accept the risks that accompany what is prescribed, what is the difference between that and the risk of a Covid vaccine.

To be fair, there is a risk associated with things we all do on a daily basis, that we probably don’t even think about.  In my opinion the majority of people who refuse the vaccine are doing so purely because they resent being told what to do.