Emission From Boats

[Andrewcook]

With this Emission on Cars and Motor Bikes Zones affect Boats As you all must know the Mayor of London has made Emission  Zones will this be applied to Boats and Day Boats? 

[NeilB]

Not yet, although it is on the agenda.  RCD 3 has been delayed to at least 2030 and this will only affect new builds.

[Chelsea14Ian]

17 minutes ago, Andrewcook said:

With this Emission on Cars and Motor Bikes Zones affect Boats As you all must know the Mayor of London has made Emission  Zones will this be applied to Boats and Day Boats? 

As Long as the Mayor of London doesn't  become Mayor here.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

Many applications for new marina`s on the canal network have been refused over the years citing noise and emissions concerns. 

[Wussername]

The Broads Authority seems to gravitate to zero emissions. Not quite sure of the implications of all that. 

Now, if I was a saily, I would sleep well of a night. 

But I am not. I am also not a chugger.

I do not have a boat.

I have a concern for you all. A far reaching concern, worthy of a conversation.

[dom]

Zero emissions seems like a non-starter to me, given the large numbers of sea going boats in recreational waters. I'd imagine it's probably far more likely we'll see Euro 5 style regulations and may also have to start retro-fitting catalysers and DPFs or similar.

As an aside, I'l love to know how electric car range would translate if the same hardware went into boats. Tesla motors and batteries are becoming readily available now and not too crazy prices. The thought of being able to trickle around silently, then turn up the voltage crossing Breydon is quite appealing. 300-400 miles on a charge would be great, but I'm guessing it'd be far less in reality?

[Wussername]

The reality is how, when, and where would you charge your boat. Cars will have a problem, I very much doubt that the issues regarding the boating community will be of concern.

Unless of course you buy a mast which might be a solution and then and only then will you be self sufficient.

[Smoggy]

Catalytic converters are never going to cope with sea water being chucked through them, boat exhausts are just not like car exhausts.

And pumping sea water through is effectively a dpf.

[NeilB]

Exhaust after treatment already exists in the Marine Commercial and superyacht world, as you'd expect it's expensive and takes up a lot of space.  The exhaust is dry with either keel cooling or the cooling water injected after the catalytic converter.  It applies to new builds and re-power although you can apply for an exemption for some re-powers where it physically cannot be installed.

The picture shows the AdBlue tanks and pump behind the engine, the huge dustbin is the catalytic converter.  This version is keeled cooled, seawater cooled would have water injection near the end.

The new RCD 3 regs I mentioned above were rumored to include this system on smaller and leisure vessels, we think they have been delayed due to development time and costs being prohibitive.

Electric has been discussed before, the tech is getting there but there's a huge, huge gap in re-charging infrastructure which I cannot see being resolved anytime soon.  Huge costs to equip remote moorings with high capacity chargers and then policing the moorings etc - I just don't see it happening for decades.

[Broads01]

1 hour ago, Wussername said:

Unless of course you buy a mast which might be a solution and then and only then will you be self sufficient.

Sort of but sail boats are a bit on the slow side without wind, to put it mildly.

Electric dayboats are commonplace now. How long before technology and charging infrastructure enables electric-powered cruisers?

[grendel]

more importantly how long before they ban baked beans as they are a source of emissions.

[BroadAmbition]

more importantly how long before they ban baked beans as they are a source of emissions.

See that classic of films - Blazing Saddles

Griff

[Wussername]

Ban the bean I say. 

[Smoggy]

Never mind beans, I like a good stout and have to say their emissions are hideous,  that said hydrogen sulphide is way below methane in greenhouse terms...

Did I mention I'm filling my own 4.5kg gas bottles? Don't expect the waft of bacon butties without an aftershock.

[Troyboy]

I've noticed that NBS are advertising new Viking 300s and 275s with electric propulsion. I think the advert states that there is 9 hours usage between charges which is the equivalent to a 25hp outboard. 

I think net zero is unachievable and a load of rubbish. 

[Cheesey69]

17 hours ago, dom said:

Zero emissions seems like a non-starter to me, given the large numbers of sea going boats in recreational waters. I'd imagine it's probably far more likely we'll see Euro 5 style regulations and may also have to start retro-fitting catalysers and DPFs or similar.

As an aside, I'l love to know how electric car range would translate if the same hardware went into boats. Tesla motors and batteries are becoming readily available now and not too crazy prices. The thought of being able to trickle around silently, then turn up the voltage crossing Breydon is quite appealing. 300-400 miles on a charge would be great, but I'm guessing it'd be far less in reality?

Picking up more and more electric cars now with flat batteries. When we do move them its like dealing with a live bomb, stick them in service mode, disconnect the battery.

As for a crashed one......that is a thermic bomb!

Unless you go around with a meaty generator which defeats the idea.

The battery really does way a tonne and I still don't like the idea of that mixing with bilge water

[CambridgeCabby]

I’ve made no secret on here of my dislike in the way we are all being pushed into electric car ownership so rapidly.

The technology and infrastructure are still a far way away from being practical for most consumers , it’s (to me) just another means of ticking the all so important green credentials box without considering the implications.

To consider the current electric propulsion options on waterways would be ludicrous , impractical and IMHO irresponsible to peoples safely (loss of power on tidal waters is dangerous) , the infrastructure needed would not only be nigh on impossible to install but would also be a blight on the beautiful area of the Broads .

Modern diesel engines are far cleaner than the hype would have you believing , the move towards biodiesel helps too , if it isn’t broken don’t fix it !

[Wussername]

I'm afraid that the aspirations of some are not achievable, their ideal is simply unachievable, it defies logic. 

Thankfully I will not experience thier ambition, I shall be in my dotage, sans eyes, sans teeth, sans everything. I'm nearly there.

I'm not joking, as things are I strongly advise you to buy a horse. It has good PR, likes hay, and a bedding of straw. Its only down side is that it flatulates a lot. No doubt the do gooders will gravitate to that as they have with regard to sheep and cows, and in the fullness of time, in its turn, it will be such that the horse will  be banned.

Together with your boat.

[Heron]

With reference to the third post, why blame the Mayor of London? As I understand it he is only following government policy and we are likely to see these zones spread far and wide in the future.

[Wussername]

32 minutes ago, Heron said:

With reference to the third post, why blame the Mayor of London? As I understand it he is only following government policy and we are likely to see these zones spread far and wide in the future.

I fear for the future, your future, I really do. A future based on false objectives, most unachievable. Most of which will impact on the quality of your life and others.

[Bikertov]

1 hour ago, Heron said:

With reference to the third post, why blame the Mayor of London? As I understand it he is only following government policy and we are likely to see these zones spread far and wide in the future.

I don't think he is following policy, he is trying to raise revenue to prop up TFL (Transport for London) that is bankrupt due to substantial costs and not enough users, IMHO 

[Troyboy]

2 hours ago, Wussername said:

I'm afraid that the aspirations of some are not achievable, their ideal is simply unachievable, it defies logic. 

Thankfully I will not experience thier ambition, I shall be in my dotage, sans eyes, sans teeth, sans everything. I'm nearly there.

I'm not joking, as things are I strongly advise you to buy a horse. It has good PR, likes hay, and a bedding of straw. Its only down side is that it flatulates a lot. No doubt the do gooders will gravitate to that as they have with regard to sheep and cows, and in the fullness of time, in its turn, it will be such that the horse will  be banned.

Together with your boat.

I'm going to struggle with the 200 mile journey to Norfolk on a horse. I'll need another for the wife and two donkeys for the dog and our luggage. And I don't have stables at home.

[Turnoar]

I can’t like and be sad at the same time with your post Wussername and neither on their own reflect my feeling so best I try and put it in words.

An electric day boat has been tested over decades, gets the party from A to B and back same day working 9 to 5 and that’s been a proven way to make a living. No charge required save overnight at base.

Pondering hire cruisers, a week or a fortnight, there’s the propulsion, lighting, cooking (if not gas), bilge pump, phone charging, maybe heating etc. which for pure electric clearly needs the plug in infrastructure and, like electric vehicles, there seems to be a push to force our hands with no reciprocal publishing of plans nor guarantees of the investment in the infrastructure required... cart before horse?

The Enfield 8000 electric car was introduced not that many years before an electric day boat fleet was introduced on the broads for hire. At least one electricity board bought in to the 8000 for an armada of meter readers. PR stunt imho, clearly refuelling a car by plugging in every day was rejected in favour of reverting to ICE. I would buy one in a flash though as for short journeys to the supermarket etc. I could mothball it until retirement.

My horse has a saddle, but it needs no hay to fuel it, just pushing on the pedals. Newest bike about 18 years old, oldest probably 36, more in the world than people perhaps? The metal can be recycled but it still burns rubber tyres and inner tubes like electric cars. However, I rarely ride at night these days so very few if any batteries to recharge and ultimately dispose of. Tricycles are a solution for those who cannot balance a bike and for those who can’t pedal  with their legs hand driven cranks have been designed.

Public transport, including river tour buses and ferries, haulage and agriculture should be fully electrified asap to prove the policy is viable at which point I will fully embrace the change. Until then I will stick to my pedals or jump on the local diesel generator driven Stadler electric train and fossil powered omnibus whenever I venture into the big smoke, the virtue signallers I believe are hybricrits, do as I say’.

[Bluebell]

I would be more likely to believe in net zero if I could see more new buildings with solar panels…😎

[Wonderwall]

What I’ve never seen explained is how we are hoping to supply all these vehicles with electricity . The grid is already maxed out at present . To convert all that KW of power from petrol/diesel into electricity is astronomical. 
Every town would need its own power station ! 
I think , not for the first time , our politicians are promising one thing , but the reality will be a lot different .