The Staithe & Willow Horning.

[Graham47]

The owners of The Staithe & Willow in Horning have announced that it is to close permanently.

[Vaughan]

Not the first riverside cafe or restaurant to close down this year.  I can think of two in Hoveton and another in Horning.

I can't see this as specifically boat related, unless the recent decision to make the staithe exclusive to dayboats has not produced the footfall that the council were hoping for?

In view of all the national park aspirations that are supposed to produce the kind of trippers that such a business might thrive on, it would suggest to me that there is more wrong with the Broads economy these days, than simply a slump in the hire boat business.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Always  sad seeing  businesses  closing.Ive seen on Facebook,the Ship at South Walsham  may become a community  ran pub.

 

[MargeandParge]

Sorry to see it close it always seemed popular on a sunny day. 

Is the Staithe now for day boats only?

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[Vaughan]

11 minutes ago, MargeandParge said:

Is the Staithe now for day boats only?

It was an announcement made, including a speech by the Good Doctor, earlier this season.

[BuffaloBill]

23 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

It was an announcement made, including a speech by the Good Doctor, earlier this season.

He knows how to kill the boating fraternity to help his NP status aspirations don't he...

[Boaters]

Five of us went for meal just night,at 7.30 in Norfolk it was half empty in the past it would have been packed must be a sign of belt titening its not cheap ,no more.

[kpnut]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I can't see this as specifically boat related, unless the recent decision to make the staithe exclusive to dayboats has not produced the footfall that the council were hoping for?

I moored there the other day, no signs to say it’s dayboats only. I think it was perhaps a proposal made back in the summer by some parish councillors for discussion. 

[marshman]

Plenty of bigger boats still moor there - I was not aware of the day boat rule!

[rightsaidfred]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

It was an announcement made, including a speech by the Good Doctor, earlier this season.

That isnt in pplace under the current leaseit is a proposal for when the lease is renewed.

Fred

[Gracie]

This is such a shame. A very pretty and lovely little place for a Latte and watching the world go by. Thank you for the info Graham

Everything seems to be changing and not for the better either x

[vanessan]

The Staithe and Willow does seem to have changed hands quite a few times over the last 10 years or so. It has been very popular in the past. 

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

it would suggest to me that there is more wrong with the Broads economy these days, than simply a slump in the hire boat business.

Very true. 

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

It was an announcement made, including a speech by the Good Doctor, earlier this season.

I believe it was a suggestion made to smooth the renewal of the lease on the moorings.  Not sure that it’s in force, but to be fair, you could fit many more dayboats, who’d stay for far less time than most cruisers during the day, which may serve to increase the footfall at the cafes and restaurants in the area.  Don’t get me wrong, losing more BA moorings is not a prospect that I find palatable, especially in view of our ever increasing tolls, but I can see the attraction of such a scheme for the Parish Council to potentially aid their businesses.

[Vaughan]

6 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

 Don’t get me wrong, losing more BA moorings is not a prospect that I find palatable,

It is not a BA mooring, it is the parish staithe, going back hundreds of years to the old maltings, which used to be on the site and for which the building materials were said to have been "robbed out" of St Benets Abbey.

The Good Doctor simply used the situation, to make another one of his pronouncements.

[floydraser]

For goodness sake!

I've just caught this but it looks like within 10 hours of it appearing here we are trying to pin it on JP!

But for the sake of a couple of minutes googling one can see that this couple gave up their professions to invest in the place in 2022. Well if my maths is correct that's about last year then. A brilliant time to invest just as everyone is flush with cash??? Not. A gamble. Fair play to them for giving it a go but they blame rising costs of wholesale stuff. Best to get out before you lose too much then.

So what does "permanently" actually mean for the future of the place? Convert to a nice house or does another business take over? I guess we'll see.

[CambridgeCabby]

As far as the moorings on Horning staithe becoming available for Day boats only , if this were to occur and the moorings were maintained by the BA how would they justify essentially providing moorings for the sole use of hire craft (excepting the very very few private day boats) and excluding all the toll payers in other craft , are they going to place a no craft exceeding ?? Feet or are they going to include picnic boats or simply restrict it to day hire boats ?

Are the day boats going to need to utilise the electric hook up which again were installed at all toll payers cost , a stupid proposal but one that doesn’t surprise me from an individual that seems to have a wish to destroy the leisure boat industry whom have been his wage payer for many years 

[rightsaidfred]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

It is not a BA mooring, it is the parish staithe, going back hundreds of years to the old maltings, which used to be on the site and for which the building materials were said to have been "robbed out" of St Benets Abbey.

The Good Doctor simply used the situation, to make another one of his pronouncements.

With due respect it is a BA 24hr mooring leased from the Parish Council, the original suggestion came from a councillor during a Parish meeting, the only business that really benefits from day boats is the Swan whereas the shop etc as well as the pub benefits from holiday and private cruisers.

Fred

 

[Meantime]

Its amazing sometimes how rumours grow arms and legs! 

Sometimes facts help.

The mooring hasn't become a dayboat only mooring and there is a lease in place until the 26th March 2025. It is my understanding that the local businesses are keen to see some or all or the mooring become short stay moorings to increase turnover of customers. I wonder where they got that idea from? The BA's claims about Ranworth ring any bells anyone?

Anyway most of the speculation came about as a result of the following piece in the minutes of the Horning Parish Council's meeting back in May.

Broads Authority - The Parish Council was pleased to receive John Packman, Chief Executive of the Broads Authority, and Angie O'Connor Assets Manager of the Broads Authority to the meeting in May. Mrs O'Connor confirmed that the staithe lease was due for renewal on 26/3/2025. 

The Parish Council would be working with the BA on the lease.

Mr Packman explained the justification behind the increase in navigation fees. He explained the consequences of inflation, salary increases of staff, increased need for new safety measures, reduction in boats and smaller boats becoming larger boats.

Mr Packman suggested that his colleague Rob Leigh would be pleased to engage with the Council concerning business and commerce in the village, and how they could work together to support local business in Horning.

A discussion was held regarding short term moorings, which Mr Packman said the Broads Authority may be able to support. 

[marshman]

Change is inevitable - its been "happening" on the Broads ever since I was a little lad. And long before that!!

As you get older you find change hard to accept, but here we are some 75 years on and to me it still has its special appeal, and only some of its changed. To read many comments, you would think the whole area is being driven into destitution by JP and his acolytes -its not the first recession that the Broads has survived nor will it be the last! I suspect the same comments were being made back in 2007/08 - its called a cycle and yes, it will recover and yes, it will happen again in future.

As for Horning, don't forget the trend to electric dayboats - perhaps it will get taken over by GridServe and it will have a Costa Coffee, an M & S Food. You could use the Staithe and Willow premises which will soon be free!!

However the biggest danger is not the BA,JP, or many individuals concerns of today, but rising sea levels that will do most damage I suspect!

[dom]

From what I can remember, Horning main street has 2 tea rooms, 2 pubs, a restaurant, a "cafe deli" and a takeaway doing hot and cold drinks. That's leaving aside the old dairy and ferry marina.

I lived just above the staithe for a while in the early 80s, when the holiday business was very busy, but from what I can recall, I don't think there was anything more than the 2 pubs back then (but there was still a supermarket, butchers, tackle shop, etc).

It's not the BA to blame for the failure of these businesses, it's the banks and business owners failing to understand demand, footfall and market saturation. The last time I was there, it was peak summer and a gloriously sunny day but, apart from coachloads being ferried directly to the Southern Comfort, the number of people around was extremely low. There simply aren't the numbers of people around to sustain these businesses.

I'm sure these people look at places like Wells, Blakeney or Burnham and think "Oh, I could do the same in Horning", completely failing to comprehend that, whilst people head to the coast all year round, the Broads are like a ghost town in winter. To survive somewhere like Horning, you need to draft a business plan, then add a good 50% more to the summer income needed in order to survive winter.

[BrundallNavy]

2 hours ago, floydraser said:

For goodness sake!

I've just caught this but it looks like within 10 hours of it appearing here we are trying to pin it on JP!

But for the sake of a couple of minutes googling one can see that this couple gave up their professions to invest in the place in 2022. Well if my maths is correct that's about last year then. A brilliant time to invest just as everyone is flush with cash??? Not. A gamble. Fair play to them for giving it a go but they blame rising costs of wholesale stuff. Best to get out before you lose too much then.

So what does "permanently" actually mean for the future of the place? Convert to a nice house or does another business take over? I guess we'll see.

They cannot be doing to bad, a nice new estate car appeared outside earlier this year and that wasn’t cheap. 

[LizG]

I wonder if they just plan to live there?

[floydraser]

5 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Are the day boats going to need to utilise the electric hook up which again were installed at all toll payers cost , 

I wonder about this one: do we know the cost of installation or are you assuming that's the case? I wonder if the supplier would install charging points at a heavily discounted rate or free?

[CambridgeCabby]

20 minutes ago, floydraser said:

I wonder about this one: do we know the cost of installation or are you assuming that's the case? I wonder if the supplier would install charging points at a heavily discounted rate or free?

It is an assumption , but also based on the cost of installing electricity posts being quoted in previous years BA expenses ( but not the Horning staithe posts in the accounts I read ) 

[LondonRascal]

I had the sour taste that this is another example of where a business is doing okay, but not as okay as the owners would like for their pockets. This seems often the case where people have come to an area, taken on a business radically different to anything done before (or their previous job) and is also often the first time they have had to run a business. So, close it down and enjoy the location as a private dwelling. It is an easier, more rewarding long term financial proposition for them but a loss for the village and visitors.