Smoking in pubs

[troutman62]

4 hours ago, imtamping2 said:

Well I suppose it could be moved to the lounge......or how about the smoking room 

 

5 hours ago, Bobdog said:

At the risk of stirring the pot - how on earth is 'Smoking in Pubs' a valid subject for debate as 'Broads Related Chat'?  Can't we dump this whole thread in the ashtrays of 'The Lounge'?

Aren't there any Pubs in Norfolk these days ?

[Springsong]

Something MM said about a landlord choosing whether his pub was smoking or non smoking. I kind of agree with him, our pub was our home, does that mean I could not smoke upstairs or for that matter downstairs when closed ? If a person was caught "doing" drugs in the loo I as the landlord was liable for a very hefty fine and possibly a criminal record, so nowadays if they were to have a crafty spliff  would I have committed three offences ?

[Soundings]

1 hour ago, springsong said:

Something MM said about a landlord choosing whether his pub was smoking or non smoking. I kind of agree with him, our pub was our home, does that mean I could not smoke upstairs or for that matter downstairs when closed ? If a person was caught "doing" drugs in the loo I as the landlord was liable for a very hefty fine and possibly a criminal record, so nowadays if they were to have a crafty spliff  would I have committed three offences ?

I do not believe the "ban" stops smoking upstairs in your living quarters. But it, I think, does stop you smoking in what are the public areas even if closed (I stand to be corrected on this) and quite right to. If you were to allow the landlord to make his/her own rules then by allowing smoking you are discriminating against those non-smokers who do not wish to put their health at risk or have smoke laden clothes. That to me seems to work against the reason the license was granted in the first place - to prove a public facility.

I would however have no objection to a drinking house that was specifically licensed to accommodate smokers only. It would then be a business choice for the landlord. I cannot see this happening though as the thrust is to discourage smoking and how do you ensure non smokers are not encouraged in.

 

[MauriceMynah]

"I would however have no objection to a drinking house that was specifically licensed to accommodate smokers only. It would then be a business choice for the landlord. I cannot see this happening though as the thrust is to discourage smoking and how do you ensure non smokers are not encouraged in."

1. Are you saying that you would not permit such an establishment to serve food?

2. There could be a sign on the door warning potential customers that this was a "Smoking allowed" pub. The customer would then have the choice.

3. No, the "thrust" is to ban smoking, not discourage it.

[ChrisB]

Being "Historical" Changes perceptions. If tobacco and alcohol were to be invented next week they would most likely be Class A drugs given their cost to health and well being.

[VetChugger]

I'm a smoker making vain attempts to cease but I have no problems with the smoking ban as it stands.

Lots of pubs have made ingenious attempts to provide a "smoking solution" outside and I would be pee'd off greatly if this was also banned.

 

I suspect extending the ban might just reduce many a pubs takings.

[VetChugger]

I am a reasonably frequent visitor to ale establishments and nearly always there is a regular wandering in and out for a quick gasper.

[LizG]

Not wishing to add to any controversy but there are some areas of the country/areas of specific towns, maybe not relevant to the Norfolk Broads where the change of the diversity of the population has changed signficantly to the extent that pubs are unviable because no one drinks alcohol in that area................so they close so nothing to do with smoking. I for one am very happy that smoking is banned but I respect that people still don't agree

[BroadScot]

Like them or not..Wetherspoons are still opening new pubs all over the country. So smoking has not closed all the pubs down. Just a thought.

Iain

[Soundings]

5 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

"I would however have no objection to a drinking house that was specifically licensed to accommodate smokers only. It would then be a business choice for the landlord. I cannot see this happening though as the thrust is to discourage smoking and how do you ensure non smokers are not encouraged in."

1. Are you saying that you would not permit such an establishment to serve food?

2. There could be a sign on the door warning potential customers that this was a "Smoking allowed" pub. The customer would then have the choice.

3. No, the "thrust" is to ban smoking, not discourage it.

1) No I did not say that - if you smoke and want to be suffocated whilst eating that is your shout (in a smokers only establishment)

2) Choice is not the issue when one is trying to protect the health of the uninitiated.

3) Well I won't disagree that is the way it might seem and I applaud it if that is indeed the case.

[unclemike]

2) Choice is not the issue when one is trying to protect the health of the uninitiated.

 a very pompous and patronising remark

where are all the non smokers who wouldnt enter pubs because of smoking, then when they got smoking banned still never entered pubs but found another excuse to stay away

[JennyMorgan]

I go to pubs! Not as often as I'd like but it is more often than pre smoking ban.

[Polly]

As a passive smoker from childhood (both parents were heavy smokers) and a teacher who often couldn't see across the staff room for smoke, especially during staff meetings, honestly (!) I find the freedom to smoke argument a thin one, I am allergic to tobacco smoke and my freedom to breathe matters more to me. Just saying....

[Bound2Please]

Two thing springs to mind here,

1, How many of those complaining about smokers and smoke used to smoke?

2, How many of those given up smokers didnt give a monkeys ..................... about non smokers when they smoked

As an ex landlord pre the smoking ban I would estimate that 75% of regulars in my pub smoked. I had give up smoking myself some 10 or so years before becoming a landlord. So yes I can see how banning smoking could have damaged taking I repeat said could have.... Smokers never affected the 25% on non smokers coming in then..... We did however have a smoking ban in the eating part of the pub. The biggest thing that started stopping people communicating in pubs was the mobile phone. Ours was a mobile free pub if a phone rang some else would grab it and send it for a swim in the pint of its owner.

I'll say no more on it

Charlie

[littlesprite]

I don't think many have argued that banning smoking in confined spaces was the correct thing to do, how far the ban goes is another matter.

The cost to the NHS is open to debate, most of the people treated/dying of smoking related diseases will still need treatment/die eventually for some reason or another, and think of the saving in pension pay-outs for those who die 10 years early. 

[Gracie]

I so agree about the moblie phones, the times we have been out for a pub lunch etc and you see families sitting round the table with their heads down texting and you always get the one that's are on a phone call and let's the whole pub know the conversation. I simply won't allow this at any table we as a family sit down to for dinner.

Back on topic (we don't want to upset Howard lol ) I understand the issues with health and smoking, especially the ban on smoking in public places and not having to beathe other peoples smoke but it is a habit that is addictive and some might find it hard to give up and some simply enjoy it and don't want to. They shouldn't be penalised for their choice and certainly not treated like lepers.

I seem to remember we won a couple of wars to have the very freedom of choice that we all value so much, the ban in pubs and restaurants is right in my opinion but there should be designated places for them to enjoy their life choice, not left out in the cold like they were the dregs of society

Grace

[ranworthbreeze]

Speaking from a personal point of view of always being a none smoker and going into pubs from an early age and subsequently working within pubs from my time as a service engineer. I always tried to be out of the smoke filled rooms as soon as possible. This was not always possibly with my involvement as a roadie and operating a mobile disco in the 70's.

A group of us would often go and watch bands not only in our immediate location but often further afield. By the early 80's & 90's I found that I would prefer not to spend too much time in smoke filled rooms which effected my eyes and chest. 

The smoking ban has now made going back into pubs and venues more pleasant, now if only we could afford more than an odd round.

When visiting hospitals, a practice which seems to be more prevalent with age, no smoking at all and a pain to run the gauntlet of the patients/smokers  in their hospital gowns complete with oxygen masks or drips in tow.

One of our syndicate owners told me that giving up smoking has saved him about £11000.00 a year

All I have got to work out now is where all the money I should have saved from being a none smoker went?

Regards

Alan 

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

Two thing springs to mind here,

1, How many of those complaining about smokers and smoke used to smoke?

2, How many of those given up smokers didnt give a monkeys ..................... about non smokers when they smoked

As an ex landlord pre the smoking ban I would estimate that 75% of regulars in my pub smoked. I had give up smoking myself some 10 or so years before becoming a landlord. So yes I can see how banning smoking could have damaged taking I repeat said could have.... Smokers never affected the 25% on non smokers coming in then..... We did however have a smoking ban in the eating part of the pub. The biggest thing that started stopping people communicating in pubs was the mobile phone. Ours was a mobile free pub if a phone rang some else would grab it and send it for a swim in the pint of its owner.

I'll say no more on it

Charlie

Charlie, as a fellow ex landlord from the pre smoking ban era, I had the Waveney Inn, I will agree that at least 75% of my customers smoked, probably 75% of the population smoked back then. Judging by the ochre colour of our white paint work smoking with a pint was very popular back then, but arguably rather less than 50% people smoke now. It wasn't just that 75% smoked, it was that a large concentration of people smoked. Sometimes the bar was stacked, shoulder to shoulder, nearly all puffing away, one hell of a lot of stale smoke. Even then people complained, despite the ventilation system in the main bar.

Bit like seat belts in cars, we all know it makes sense, despite the alleged loss of freedom by the unenlightened, 

Judging by the amount of obese-moblies parked outside pubs I suppose consuming food in public places will be banned next! You read it here first, carvery ban hits pubs!

[rightsaidfred]

As an ex-smoker of some years I have no particular issue with people who still smoke nor do I have any great feelings as to whether smoking should be allowed or not.

What I would say is be careful what you wish for and how and why you reach a viewpoint, smoking is a very emotive topic but just one of many issues, in Ireland and the USA it has more or less criminalised people on their own private property, using the cost to the NHS is an argument applicable to all of our rights and freedoms, Obesity is becoming the new smoking, cars another both from pollution and discouraging exercise, alcohol is a big contributor not only directly on health but the side issues with drunks, banning drinking alcohol in pubs now there is an idea that might work  

Before we know it the life police will have us all living in sterile boxes, eating food supplied in prescribed doses while spending all day on a treadmill listening to the daily updates on what we should or shouldn't think.

                          Fred

 

 

[Timbo]

I'm afraid I'm what may be referred to as vociferous smoker, even a nicotine vigilante or a baccy bolshevik. At first, other than the odd grumble, I put up with constraints placed upon me by the raffia knickered interferons. Thanks to these beige blandista's my food tastes of nothing. I buy more salt than the average Canadian spreads on his drive and my civil liberties were rapidly being eroded.

However this changed when I walked past my cigar merchants in York. The plush wooden shop interior with it's leather couches and humidors was obscured by blacked out windows. At first I thought the place had shut and in dismay wandered back into the city. However as I grew grumpier I decided to Google the shop and then telephoned them and discovered that they were indeed open. Back at the store it felt like I was walking into some sort of sordid brothel or sex shop. However once through the door the familiar mahogany, leather and cigars were there and I was rewarded with a Romeo y Juliette for my efforts. Later as I sat in the sunshine enjoying my smoke I was 'tutted at' by one of the raffia knickered.
"You are encouraging young children to buy cigars!" she whined.
"Ah in that case I'm also encouraging them to get an education and a means of gaining wealth because this cigar cost more than a playstation, now b***** off!" I smiled back.

These days when I walk into my local newsagent and Spar shop the doors of the tobacco cabinets are flung wide open so I can see the goods while I make my purchase. Even Tesco now realise the futility of keeping the doors closed as I will create a queue that will lap the store twice as I send the assistant to fetch various wares from the cabinet so I can compare prices. Of course I look on at the stupidity of the situation where pubs have been turned inside out to accommodate the interferons with more customers stood outside the doors having a smoke than are sat inside. I won't force my smoking habit onto others, I will sit in the designated smoking area with my drink...quietly... until of course an interferon emerges to moan and then I take pleasure in ejecting them from the smoking area. Walking past my local pub...now closed...I shake my head at the windows which display the words "smoking room" on the parlour.

Sadly I don't visit any pub all that often these days. In fact the only time I do visit socially is in the company of MM. Even as a family should we go out for a meal to our local pub/restaurant we eat the meal...we leave. There is no hanging around for another non alcoholic drink, because I'm driving, and why on earth would I want to stand outside a pub when I can go home and enjoy a smoke and a drink much cheaper than in the pub? More to the point why would I want to sit inside a pub surrounded by the rustle of raffia knickers and surgical flip flops discussing the qualities of Zan Izal toilet paper?

Did I mention...I'm back? 

[JennyMorgan]

4 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Obesity is becoming the new smoking, cars another both from pollution and discouraging exercise, alcohol is a big contributor not only directly on health but the side issues with drunks, banning drinking alcohol in pubs now there is an idea that might work  

Before we know it the life police will have us all living in sterile boxes, eating food supplied in prescribed doses while spending all day on a treadmill listening to the daily updates on what we should or shouldn't think.

                          Fred

 

 

I have made light of the obesity issue but Fred is entirely right. The self righteous lawmakers themselves are becoming the issue of the day. How many of you remember that ridiculous Curry woman and her assault on the runny eggs served with our all-day-breakfasts?

[BroadScot]

1 hour ago, Timbo said:

Did I mention...I'm back? 

Amongst all the smoke on this thread...."Welcome Back, Tim"  I hope you are well.

Iain

[BroadScot]

Way back in March 2006 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4845260.stm it all started up here. So it will soon be the 10th anniversary of cleaner air in all eating places. I say cleaner not clean, as those indoor grill places sure do SMOKE !

Iain.

 

[Labrador]

20 hours ago, Soundings said:

I do not believe the "ban" stops smoking upstairs in your living quarters. But it, I think, does stop you smoking in what are the public areas even if closed (I stand to be corrected on this) and quite right to. If you were to allow the landlord to make his/her own rules then by allowing smoking you are discriminating against those non-smokers who do not wish to put their health at risk or have smoke laden clothes. That to me seems to work against the reason the license was granted in the first place - to prove a public facility.

I would however have no objection to a drinking house that was specifically licensed to accommodate smokers only. It would then be a business choice for the landlord. I cannot see this happening though as the thrust is to discourage smoking and how do you ensure non smokers are not encouraged in.

 

If you allow smoking only pubs, the only person who could work in there would be the landlord. One of the main reasons given at the time was that on health and safety grounds your employees should not be exposed to the smoke (weather they smoke or not). Anyway why should pubs be singled out? This law covers all places of public access, and I totally agree with it. By the way I smoke .

[NorfolkNog]

Good grief! A very interesting and constructive debate. However if Alan hadn't split it, the Ferry would have been the most popular pub on the Broads!