Acle Overnight Moorings

[BroadScot]

2 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

no, demands that people act in a socially acceptable way land owners will not welcome the general public onto their land.

Unless its at Glastonbury! 

[Vaughan]

Both MM and Wussername are entirely right, from their own perspectives.

I am minded that on the canals, the British Waterways Board, or its successor, owns the banks and the towpath as well as the canal itself. It is therefore simple to regulate the leasing of moorings, boatyards and pub frontages.

The Broads rivers have no towpaths, as their original navigation was by sailing wherry.

We are suffering, of course, not only from the lack of revenue from all those hire boats in the 60s, but from the disappearance of all the moorings that their yards provided.

There is no question something is needed to urgently reverse this trend, but are the BA up for it? Do they even care about it?

When I think of all the money spent on that cycle path from Wroxham to Horning (and there are more to come) I rather wonder.

[ranworthbreeze]

30 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Both MM and Wussername are entirely right, from their own perspectives.

I am minded that on the canals, the British Waterways Board, or its successor, owns the banks and the towpath as well as the canal itself. It is therefore simple to regulate the leasing of moorings, boatyards and pub frontages.

The Broads rivers have no towpaths, as their original navigation was by sailing wherry.

We are suffering, of course, not only from the lack of revenue from all those hire boats in the 60s, but from the disappearance of all the moorings that their yards provided.

There is no question something is needed to urgently reverse this trend, but are the BA up for it? Do they even care about it?

When I think of all the money spent on that cycle path from Wroxham to Horning (and there are more to come) I rather wonder.

Hi Vaughan,

The Canal & River Trust only own the tow path bank of the canals, you would think that you could moor anywhere on the towpath side of the canals, but this is not always the case because the trust does lease off long term moorings, in some more popular villages where you would like to moor it is a case of mooring well before or after the village because of the leased moorings and visitor moorings being full.

With regards to good upkeep of the tow paths these have encouraged more people using the canals for cycling, walking, a means of getting to work etc. These activities help revitalize a waterway, both for boats and wildlife.

Regards

Alan

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, ranworthbreeze said:

With regards to good upkeep of the tow paths these have encouraged more people using the canals for cycling, walking, a means of getting to work etc. These activities help revitalize a waterway, both for boats and wildlife.

As indeed they do now on the Canal du Midi, where it is now possible to cycle the tow-path almost all the way from the Mediterranean to the Atlantic (at least to where the canal joins the Gironde), a distance (at a guess) of about 400 miles. Very good cycling too, as between the locks, it's all on the level!

But here is the point - this has been done in conjunction with the maintenance of the canal (originally the Canal Royal du Languedoc) as a UNESCO Site of World Heritage. It is clearly recognised, however, that the canal itself and its continued navigation, are the key to all this. I am not confident that the BA's vision of the Broads is in the same sort of joined-up writing.

[ranworthbreeze]

6 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

But here is the point - this has been done in conjunction with the maintenance of the canal (originally the Canal Royal du Languedoc) as a UNESCO Site of World Heritage. It is clearly recognised, however, that the canal itself and its continued navigation, are the key to all this. I am not confident that the BA's vision of the Broads is in the same sort of joined-up writing.

Hi Vaughan,

You could be right there, they may have progressed to joined up writing but my guess it is still on classroom slates

You find the same mentality with regards to certain areas of the canal system. In Birmingham they have truly adopted the city center. Manchester the home of the canal system have basically turned there back on the canal.

Regards

Alan

[TheQ]

16 hours ago, Wussername said:

What exactly does re-profiling the bank involve. Why does it have to impact against the ability of a boat to moor. Can it not be so engineered to provide a bank fit for purpose as well as to provide a suitable mooring.

Andrew

No it can't,  in order for the bank to be stable, the re-profiled bank must be at an angle of something like 45 degrees, this means if your draft is  maybe a foot along the side of the hull and the top of your hull is 3 ft above the water line, then the side of of your boat will be at least 4 ft from the bank and that still just touching bottom, to allow for tide levels you could be 6 to ten feet from the bank!!!

[Vaughan]

I have been thinking of what I have just said.

I looked on the map and it is about 360 miles from Nimes to Bordeaux, but that is on the motorway. Given the serpentine course of the canal as it follows the contours of the countryside, this is probably more than 500 miles. Millions have been spent, with world grants, to restore, refurbish and maintain all this towpath, often in tarmac, for the accommodation of these literally hundreds of thousands of cyclists.

The navigation is paid for by private and hire as well as commercial trading craft but what do all these cyclists pay, for this fabulous, historic, medieval resource?

Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Rien du tout. Bugger-all. There must be an American expression but I can't think of one.

What about Norwich? It is being continually dug up and messed about at enormous expense to taxpayers and its own commerce, to accommodate the needs of cyclists, who pay nothing whatever for this, but heaven help us if we should question their "rights".

I fear for the Broads, if this is where the Quangos are taking us.

[Broads01]

Well my original question has generated some good discussion about Acle and related issues. Back to the Acle issue, it seems at the moment the situation regarding availability of moorings next year is undecided, albeit it may not be as bad as first feared. To be honest before now I've tended to take only a passing interest in Bridgecraft as Horizon have been my first choice. I really like Acle as a start location though, so as 'last survivors' there I shall take a keener interest in Bridgecraft now.

Assuming the mooring situation becomes clearer as time passes, it would be good to hear from anyone who can give clarity as information becomes available.

[trambo]

10 hours ago, Broads01 said:

 I really like Acle as a start location though, so as 'last survivors' there I shall take a keener interest in Bridgecraft now.

 

Having just returned from the Broads  the presentation of the Bridgecraft fleet for what is near the end of the season, was superb.

[Matt]

Moorings up North certainly are a squeeze in the summer holidays. Never a problem for us previously as we were happy to mudweight but we now have a dog so not so easy!

 

what is noticeable down South is the difference the loss of Alphacraft and Swancraft have made to moorings around Brundall on a Friday evening. It used to be bustling with the mooring upto and including Brammerton being full, a number of boats mudweighting on Surlingham and  Coldham Hall moorings being busy. Although the Broom hirefleet has increased in numbers there was plenty of room earlier in the year.

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Matt,

We were down the first week in July and the Southern Rivers were the busiest we have seen them, mooring was at a premium and all of the usual popular spots were quite full, we were glad we booked a mooring at the Beccles Yacht Station.

Regards

Alan 

[SwanR]

That's interesting to know Alan. We certainly found the north extremely busy in both June and September. We are seriously considering whether we would want to do that again. We had lovely holidays both times, and having seen how full the moorings were in June we felt more prepared in September. But we're not sure that we would do either month again on the north side.

[smellyloo]

19 hours ago, Vaughan said:

What about Norwich? It is being continually dug up and messed about at enormous expense to taxpayers and its own commerce, to accommodate the needs of cyclists, who pay nothing whatever for this, but heaven help us if we should question their "rights".

 

Pedestrians ...... we are ALL pedestrians and ALL benefit from their rights.

Cyclists ......... we can ALL choose to be cyclists. The cost of ownership is extremely low. Thus we "nearly" ALL benefit from their rights .... not to mention the reduction in pollution/congestion if we choose to cycle.

Cars ....... benefit those who can afford to buy and run one. Therefore it is correct that the car owners are asked to contribute financially to the facilities they enjoy.

Boats ...... benefit the few. Often you read on here that boat ownership is akin to a bottomless money pit. It is therefore appropriate to expect boat owners to contribute to the cost of their facilities.

 

[Bound2Please]

21 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

Cyclists ......... we can ALL choose to be cyclists. The cost of ownership is extremely low. Thus we "nearly" ALL benefit from their rights .... not to mention the reduction in pollution/congestion if we choose to cycle.

 

Well I for one consider it to be asked.... no made to pay road tax, to be discrimination against me when cyclist dont pay a penny road tax, but expect every cycle path and road to be kept free for them....

Charlie

[smellyloo]

15 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

Well I for one consider it to be asked.... no made to pay road tax, to be discrimination against me when cyclist dont pay a penny road tax, but expect every cycle path and road to be kept free for them....

Charlie

I'm sorry but I don't consider cyclists to be "them" but "us" ........... are you seriously advocating that your toddler's bike be subjected to "road tax"?

[Matt]

1 hour ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Hi Matt,

We were down the first week in July and the Southern Rivers were the busiest we have seen them, mooring was at a premium and all of the usual popular spots were quite full, we were glad we booked a mooring at the Beccles Yacht Station.

Regards

Alan 

Probably all those private boats getting out before the school holidays!

[Bound2Please]

3 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

I'm sorry but I don't consider cyclists to be "them" but "us" ........... are you seriously advocating that your toddler's bike be subjected to "road tax"?

YES

[marshman]

There is no reason at all why those profiled banks cannot be used for mooring and indeed in places that is already happening. Go down the top end of Fleet Dyke with a brush cutter and cut down the vegetation and within a few weeks, that would be well used.The vegetation has now grown out on the profiling and I have had no issues with the couple of spots opened up

The trouble is when there was 3k hire boats around, they HAD to make these so called wild moorings as they were insufficient other moorings, and they did by pushing in and trampling the grass etc. In the 60's I remember many muddy bank moorings but despite the comments of an earlier poster, I do think the earlier part of the year was pretty quiet - I never had had a problem of finding moorings generally.However I know you mostly disagree but thats because lots now look for the more formal mooring.

I think September has been busier but I do think the weather had something to do with that with hire yards seemingly, having a pretty good month

[BroadScot]

9 minutes ago, marshman said:

I think September has been busier but I do think the weather had something to do with that with hire yards seemingly, having a pretty good month

After the dreadful Spring, that is good news Marshy ! 

Iain

[grendel]

I seem to recall in Coot Club, Teasel used a gang plank to access the bank on a wild mooring, is this not a possibility anymore for those profiled banks?

[BuffaloBill]

21 hours ago, Vaughan said:

There must be an American expression but I can't think of one.

"Didley Squat" I believe 

[Chelsea14Ian]

Not sure where your going with this smelly book.Are you suggesting that as a boat owner  I should  pay for moorings and others not?Well I think I pay my way now.Aside from the running costs.There are tolls ,insurance ,fuel etc.

There are a shortage  of moorings.So what you may say.Pubs shops restaurants,local attractions  depend often on boaters for there trade.I have been visiting  the broads  since the sixties.It is true the number of hire boats  have gone down and private ownership has gone up.I don't  mind paying  for some moorings,but there has to be a mix of moorings free and  charged.

It's seems some moorings  that were ba 24 hour moorings  have been taken back by land owners. I would suggest  that all concerned get round  the table  and sort out the mess.

And by the way boat owners come in all shapes and sizes,most of us are average  not millionaires

Ian

 

 

[ZimbiIV]

All cyclists, horse riders and the ilk should be forced to have public indemnity insurance above the age of 16 to use public areas.

Owners do pay more to the upkeep of the broads than once a year hirers and only right, they use them more.

paul

 

[TheQ]

37 minutes ago, ZimbiIV said:

 

Owners do pay more to the upkeep of the broads than once a year hirers and only right, they use them more.

paul

 

I seriously doubt that, the broads tax is on the boat not the individual hirer, hire boats are out continuously for maybe 20 weeks a year if not more,  sadly most of us owners still have to work and are lucky to get one weekend out a month and maybe two weeks in a year.

[MauriceMynah]

This thread, like so many others has wandered off a bit, I have to admit I'm thinking of starting another, just to highlight the most important aspect of where this has gone.

We want stuff. All broads users want things. Things cost money. Somebody has to pay that money, so ... Whoi should pay for what and when?

Boaters want moorings. Fishermen use those moorings to fish from, walkers trundle along them and twitchers stand on them to... twitch I suppose!

That's just one example, there are more and certainly better ones.

I do not have the answer to this conumdrum, nor I suspect does the BA, the Environment agency, or even Peter Weller (well ok, he just might ) but our not having the answers, does not make the questions go away.

Moorings, Waste disposal, speeding boats, weird algea blooms wot I can't spell, tidal surges, and on and on and on. The list is almost endless.

So ladies and gentlemen,I put it to you that we should all consider the prospect, the implications and the practicalities of Forty two.