Corona Virus

[Meantime]

There seems to be a concern in recent posts on this thread that the government is over reporting COVID19 deaths by "lumping" in flu deaths with COVID19, or as Paul has mentioned for a variety of other causes listing COVID19 as the cause of death, or over reporting again.

The five year historical figures show over 46,000 additional deaths, irrespective of cause for the last 6 weeks leading up to 1st May. That is fact as recorded and collated from death registers over those years. So what has caused that jump?

If anything the government are guilty of under recording COVID19 deaths. They are currently stating something along the lines of 33,000 which leaves an unexplained additional 13,000.

[grendel]

the numbers are irrelevant, the tragedy is that thousands of individuals - people with friends and families, are no longer with us.

Any and each of those people are important, to put it into numbers is to take away the true tragedy of the situation, and the sadness of those left behind to pick up the pieces.

[ChrisB]

I think it is a classic case of catch 22, damned if you do damned if you don't. 

At the start of this crisis they needed beds in hospitals every scenario was an unknown so a few thousand long term, normally older citizen were moved into care homes without testing. Many were to succumb to pneumonia, and that was recorded as cause of death not Covid 19. 

I think that clearing the hospitals was their only choice, and it is the type of choice medics are faced with on a daily basis but not on such scale.

If the death is put down to pneumonia you can see how numbers go array.

Pneumonia is on my late wife's death certificate but her cancer was in all her major organs. My father and father in Law died of Pneumonia due to lying in bed with dementia.

Years ago I heard a doctor on television say " nearly everyone dies of pneumonia  as a consequence of some other ailment"

 

[vanessan]

Hot news this morning is that the rate of infection in London is down to 24 per day. Well that’s hardly surprising as lockdown has led to the capital being almost deserted for the last couple of months! The media’s ‘London’ probably means the square mile anyway. It will be interesting to see what it is in two weeks time now that commuters are starting to crowd back in. 

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, vanessan said:

It will be interesting to see what it is in two weeks time now that commuters are starting to crowd back in. 

Agreed, I think that Boris & Co have jumped the gun by at least a month. Reality and science don't always go hand in hand.

[Guest]

The lord giveth and the Lord taketh away....."Stay off public transport and use your car if you can"...

[floydraser]

4 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Agreed, I think that Boris & Co have jumped the gun by at least a month. Reality and science don't always go hand in hand.

I don't agree. I think a lot more cases will be caused by people interpreting the guidance to suit their own agendas. Just this very morning I have seen evidence of my neighbour's stupid actions in disregard of the guidance. They seem to think the danger is past because of the partial relaxation.

I would probably be safer on my boat!

[JennyMorgan]

32 minutes ago, floydraser said:

I don't agree. I think a lot more cases will be caused by people interpreting the guidance to suit their own agendas. Just this very morning I have seen evidence of my neighbour's stupid actions in disregard of the guidance. They seem to think the danger is past because of the partial relaxation.

I would probably be safer on my boat!

Seems to me that you agree! I've said that we needed at least another month before the relaxation. To add to that my reasoning is exactly the same as yours in regard to the stupidity of others. The science appears to be supporting the relaxation whilst common sense and human behavior suggests otherwise.  

[rightsaidfred]

Dammed if you do dammed if you don't that always the problem especially when lives are at stake, on one hand you have a government trying to do whats best in the interests of safety being lambasted for depriving people of their liberty and then the same government lambasted for not being strict enough, you have a large element of the public doing their best to help including a lot of public minded people going the extra mile to help and care for others, you have a minority who only have their own interests at heart, we all want to get back to having as near normal life as possible but only when its in the best interests of the country as a whole.

If the government say its ok for some things to reopen that's good and welcome but its the up to the owners of those businesses to decide how and when its appropriate to do so not up to us to demand it.

Fred

[JennyMorgan]

3 hours ago, Jemaki said:

The lord giveth and the Lord taketh away....."Stay off public transport and use your car if you can"...

I dare say that you are right but perhaps a few less cars in the central zone won't go amiss either. As a country boy I am really enjoying the lack of traffic noise in my own neck of the woods, I'm sure that I am not alone in that. 

[rightsaidfred]

40 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I dare say that you are right but perhaps a few less cars in the central zone won't go amiss either. As a country boy I am really enjoying the lack of traffic noise in my own neck of the woods, I'm sure that I am not alone in that. 

Maybe but as the government have just said its ok to go back to work and avoid public transport and using your car etc our beloved mayor has now reintroduced the congestion charge thats if you can find somewhere to park, helpful or what, about time politicians stopped playing politics.

Fred

 

[Meantime]

If you are driving into and parking within the congestion charge zone then trust me the extra £3.50 is the least of your worries. Finsbury Square car park within the zone 4 to 24hrs £55. Most within the zone are very similar money. I suspect this is also about encouraging traffic to keep away from the very centre to enable more space for pedestrians and cyclists. The new etiquette seems to be to step into the road when passing someone to ensure the 2 metre al distancing. The Police are now warning people to avoid the habit of stepping into the road to pass as it is ;likely to cause more accidents.

[rightsaidfred]

1 hour ago, EastCoastIPA said:

If you are driving into and parking within the congestion charge zone then trust me the extra £3.50 is the least of your worries. Finsbury Square car park within the zone 4 to 24hrs £55. Most within the zone are very similar money. I suspect this is also about encouraging traffic to keep away from the very centre to enable more space for pedestrians and cyclists. The new etiquette seems to be to step into the road when passing someone to ensure the 2 metre al distancing. The Police are now warning people to avoid the habit of stepping into the road to pass as it is ;likely to cause more accidents.

Think you will find its £11.50 not £3.50.

Fred

[Meantime]

13 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Think you will find its £11.50 not £3.50.

Fred

It's going up by £3.50 from £11.50 to £15.

[rightsaidfred]

19 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

It's going up by £3.50 from £11.50 to £15.

Sorry I thought you was reffering to the current charge.

Fred

[grendel]

for me there would be an emmissions charge on top of that, i once worked out to drive into london, and park for a few hours would cost me about £75 a day

[grendel]

the emmission charge is £12.50 a day

[ZimbiIV]

£75 to drive into London, sorry that's not enough for me.

£500 may tempt me but I don't think they would pay me that much!

paul

[Smoggy]

Sod that! I break out into a cold sweat as soon as I get inside the M25.

[ranworthbreeze]

Never mind London, if I had been forced to work in the centre of Sheffield I would have retired years ago. Travelling for work is only any good if you are on the clock!

Regards 

Alan

[Chelsea14Ian]

Marina and I both work in the city.At present we are both furloughed.So at home.Our biggest  concern  is travel. Marina  used to get a bus to Woolwich then the DLR to Bank.Me was working 14.00 to 22.00.Would get the City Thameslink, which was not very busy,sometimes busy at night. Marinas trip at times busy.That for both of us is a worry.The R rate is at present  low in London 0.40.Both of us dont know when or if we will return  to work.Due to my health,Marina is more likely to go back before  me.

[vanessan]

If anyone is interested, there is an interesting article on the BBC website under the ‘Coronavirus explained’ section and ‘Coronavirus: Where are cases still rising?’  In that section there is a moving graph showing how confirmed cases spread across the globe day by day. It is quite frightening to watch the UK climb that chart. Elsewhere I have read that passengers flying in to Heathrow still have no checks carried out on them and it is still not clear if/when this 14 day quarantine rule will come in. Things are on the up in this country but I fear we are likely to see a second wave of the virus if we don’t take it more carefully. 
 

[marshman]

So how many people are flying into Heathrow every day? If you are showing symptoms you probably broke the laws in the departing country and the regulations of the airline and you probably at least had your temperature taken  when departing by either the airport or the airline itself.  When you get here, you could indeed have it, but are not showing symptoms -  when and if if you subsequently do, you self isolate just as we do?? Is it really any more risky than being out and about here?: Surely the whole plane is unlikely to be infected, according to the best science, so in reality it really makes not a lot of difference releasing the potential into the wider community where there is already a widespread likelihood of being in contact with someone who has it the moment you walk out the airport door?

Of course we are likely to have a second or third wave, but we cannot shut everything for ever can we? We have to adapt to it and cope , like it or not. Be alarmed or not by the figures but you have to accept some time or other the way we deal with it has to alter? Humans are good at adapting to change and we must find a way not to be locked down for a couple of years or so or the consequences will be far worse for many other reasons I suspect.

I am sure many will disagree with me, but thats nothing new !!!

[vanessan]

I don’t necessarily disagree, I just think it is  still too early to be opening up our borders so freely. (Not that they ever really shut!) We are all eventually going to have to accept a new ‘normal’, no doubt about that. 

[ChrisB]

4 minutes ago, marshman said:

So how many people are flying into Heathrow every day? If you are showing symptoms you probably broke the laws in the departing country and the regulations of the airline and you probably at least had your temperature taken  when departing by either the airport or the airline itself.  When you get here, you could indeed have it, but are not showing symptoms -  when and if if you subsequently do, you self isolate just as we do?? Is it really any more risky than being out and about here?: Surely the whole plane is unlikely to be infected, according to the best science, so in reality it really makes not a lot of difference releasing the potential into the wider community where there is already a widespread likelihood of being in contact with someone who has it the moment you walk out the airport door?

Of course we are likely to have a second or third wave, but we cannot shut everything for ever can we? We have to adapt to it and cope , like it or not. Be alarmed or not by the figures but you have to accept some time or other the way we deal with it has to alter? Humans are good at adapting to change and we must find a way not to be locked down for a couple of years or so or the consequences will be far worse for many other reasons I suspect.

I am sure many will disagree with me, but thats nothing new !!!

Dearest Marshman,

Whilst I agree in principle with the sentiment of what you say, you are looking at it from a retiree's point of view sitting in rural Norfolk.

For my sins I had to travel for a number of years from Chalfont & Latimer to Liverpool Street on the Metropolitan Line. If I was now faced with an employer saying come back to work I would be frankly "Bricking it" to quote the modern parlance, on that journey.

I am also deeply sceptical about this opening of schools. I am not a conspiracy type, but can't help feeling that it has a lot to do with "Free Child Care" not education, so parents are freed up to return to the workplace.

I agree with what J.M. Peter has written somewhere , I think we should have left it another month and see if it was "set fair".

I hope I am proved wrong.