Water Level - Potter Heigham Bridge

[PaulN]

Is the water level now permanently higher on the Broads and the River Thurne in particular. 

I remember back in the 60's when I was on hire boats with my parents, we didn't seem to have a problem getting up to Hickling. Now I feel that beyond the bridge is out of bounds and our air draft is only 6'2"

I have no doubt that some of the knowledgeable  members of NBN will be able to advise.

[grendel]

I have hired from Marthams and they can normally get their boats under down to about 5'10", that said 6'2" should be possible a lot of the time, but it does depend upon the shape of your boat, many of the regular boats to get through are narrower than a 12 foot beam, 12 footers can get through, but need the height at the roof corners, I have seen clearances up to about 6' 10" that said the bridge pilots generally know the height different boats need to get through. so its always worth giving them a call

[BrundallNavy]

Every year it seems to be getting harder to get Nipper up to Martham.   This year I waited right until the last day only to push her through at 6-1 in the dark.  

[PaulN]

Thank you for your reply, but is it my imagination or are water levels higher than a few decades ago and if so what has caused this.  

As you can probably see from the small inset photo of our boat, on my NBN profile, our roof does slope away at 45 degrees either side (it's an Alphacraft 36 with fore and aft access). However at the heights I am seeing, I just wouldn't feel confident. 

I would happily pay the pilot to take the boat through, but I don't believe they can do that for private boats, although I stand to be corrected.

[marshman]

You will get all kind of answers but just ask yourself what happens to the Broads when sea levels rise because of global warming? That was of course 60 years ago. And despite those who deny its happening, check out sea level changes over 60 years!

One big factor is the size of boats as Grendel has pointed out - boats are a bit like SUV's!! Now they have reached the maximum normal width (12'4"? ) they  have boats which cannot go up the Ant or down the Chet because they are too wide, and many won't go under, or struggle, with Ludham. And yet they still let - don't forget the massive growth in short breaks and people don't seem to care if they miss the best bits!!!

[garryn]

5 minutes ago, PaulN said:

Thank you for your reply, but is it my imagination or are water levels higher than a few decades ago and if so what has caused this.  

As you can probably see from the small inset photo of our boat, on my NBN profile, our roof does slope away at 45 degrees either side (it's an Alphacraft 36 with fore and aft access). However at the heights I am seeing, I just wouldn't feel confident. 

I would happily pay the pilot to take the boat through, but I don't believe they can do that for private boats, although I stand to be corrected.

 

[BrundallNavy]

Potter pilot will do private boats and have their own list for clearance, Wroxham pilots do not do private boats. 

[PaulN]

Thank you Brundall Navy.

Wroxham Pilots told me that they weren't insured for private boats and so I assumed this applied to Potter Heigham as well. So that is really good to hear and when the water level looks a little lower in the summer, I may well give them a ring  

[marshman]

Paul - by all means ring them but I would give your chances as just marginally better than nil !! It does happen but you have to be around to grab it these days. Moor up and take a day boat for a few hours !!

[grendel]

there have been a few discussions on this topic through the years, some going to many pages with many theories why the river levels are higher, its a combination of factors, rising sea levels, lack of dredging at certain locations, all these have been discussed at great length, about the only theory we may be able to discount is that of the bridge sinking as there are regular surveys.

[Mouldy]

30 minutes ago, PaulN said:

Thank you Brundall Navy.

Wroxham Pilots told me that they weren't insured for private boats and so I assumed this applied to Potter Heigham as well. So that is really good to hear and when the water level looks a little lower in the summer, I may well give them a ring  

Always bear in mind that the opportunities for getting larger craft under the bridge are few and far between.  Consider what would happen if you managed to get under, but we’re unable to return for several weeks.  
The last time we went under Potter in a hire boat was in 2006, in Granada Girl from Summercraft.  If you really want to see the other side, hire a day boat from Potter and go for a chug.  

I do think that you are correct in your assumption that river levels are higher now than before.  Back in the late 60s and 70s, larger craft such as Caribbeans were able to pass through much more frequently than now and we’ve been through in Connoisseurs before too.  I’m sure that Griff has a theory about river levels and the reasons, but I won’t steal his thunder and explain.
 

[marshman]

I will wait 'til he comments - don't want to steal his thunder!!!

But what you cannot argue with is that over the years the salt water surges when we have them, now go further upstream than ever before - in the last 15 years or so since I have been aware of the impact of these, it is quite noticeable how on the Bure they now extend almost year by year. And like it or not it harms much freshwater fauna and flora - but who cares about that!!!

Paul - what will really help is a 3 months drought and very high pressure before you attempt it but I have an AF35 rated at 6'9" but it is the width that causes the problem - as you say thats why they cut the corners off but remember too the arch is much different to Wroxham where its much more suited to that shape of roofline as its much wider. But even Wroxham is getting more difficult - I never had much issue at the latter but now if you are unlucky, that too is getting harder

[WherryNice]

1 hour ago, BrundallNavy said:

Potter pilot will do private boats and have their own list for clearance, Wroxham pilots do not do private boats. 

 

1 hour ago, PaulN said:

Thank you Brundall Navy.

Wroxham Pilots told me that they weren't insured for private boats and so I assumed this applied to Potter Heigham as well. So that is really good to hear and when the water level looks a little lower in the summer, I may well give them a ring  

The Wroxham pilots took my parents private boat through and back again last summer, I was quite surprised when they told me! Not sure if it's a service they now offer or maybe my folks just got lucky when they rang. It was a different pilot each time though.

[catcouk]

I don't think Wroxham pilots are supposed to but we had a pilot who left our hire boat (after transit) to help a privateer who was struggling a few years ago. The pilot told me they weren't supposed to but his conscience wouldn't let them ignore the boat - they were highly likely to have an accident or injury. Personally, I think that is an attitude to be applauded - making the river safer for everyone! 

[Bytheriver]

There is a whole lot of work by the Environment Agency on water levels under the banner of the Broads Futures Intuitive 

The website is hosted by BA but please do not hold this against the project which is led by EA who have the funding & clout with government for future funding - the only way to get any suitable changes made. It is supported by local MPs as well as local representatives 

The project has been underway for some time so there are a number of reports well worth a read

https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/looking-after/climate-change/broadland-futures-initiative

 

[PaulN]

Thank you everyone for your mine of information as usual. 

I think I would only attempt Potter Heigham with pilot if as Marsham says, the water is low after a long dry period and even then, only if the forecast is to continue dry. Also would have to be just before a spring tide, knowing that it will be even lower a day or 2 later.

We had thought of hiring a day-boat from HW and as suggested here, that will probably be the best bet and more relaxing.

Thank you everyone for your help. 

[TheQ]

7 minutes ago, PaulN said:

Thank you everyone for your mine of information as usual. 

I think I would only attempt Potter Heigham with pilot if as Marsham says, the water is low after a long dry period and even then, only if the forecast is to continue dry. Also would have to be just before a spring tide, knowing that it will be even lower a day or 2 later.

We had thought of hiring a day-boat from HW and as suggested here, that will probably be the best bet and more relaxing.

Thank you everyone for your help. 

it's not so much a dry period, as high air pressure lowers the North Sea, so the water can run out. and a good westerly or Northerly also pushes the water away from Norfolk.. and of course whether it's spring tides or not.

Get the ultimate bad combination of a Northerly, Low air pressure , and spring tides, and all the chalets in Potter get their feet wet.

[annv]

A floating barrier at Yarmouth would control all of this for little money. John

[vanessan]

49 minutes ago, PaulN said:

Thank you everyone for your mine of information as usual. 

I think I would only attempt Potter Heigham with pilot if as Marsham says, the water is low after a long dry period and even then, only if the forecast is to continue dry. Also would have to be just before a spring tide, knowing that it will be even lower a day or 2 later.

We had thought of hiring a day-boat from HW and as suggested here, that will probably be the best bet and more relaxing.

Thank you everyone for your help. 

We last took our boat under PH bridge about 6/7 years ago (well, the pilot did!). Since then there have been a few opportunities but we probably wouldn’t risk it again, it all seems too iffy. So much to have an influence on water levels. Over the years we have hired day boats too and I think that is the best way to explore the upper Thurne - no worries about getting back under the bridge! 

[Broads01]

Do Herbert Woods permit their larger day cruisers under the bridge or is it just the basic day boats?

[NorfolkNog]

11 minutes ago, Broads01 said:

Do Herbert Woods permit their larger day cruisers under the bridge or is it just the basic day boats?

I'm sure I've seen somewhere that they don't but can't remember where. 

I think the hulls are very similar to the Adventuring Light ones - probably would fit at a pinch but I wouldn't think they would let hirers do it. 

Its a shame actually as it would be a great way to explore those waters. Herbert Woods could consider taking hirers under I suppose, on the strict understand they bring them back! I think after I'd had a shandy or three in the Nelson Head and the Pleasure Boat it could be a bit iffy! 

[BroadAmbition]

I’m sure that Griff has a theory about river levels and the reasons, but I won’t steal his thunder and explain.

Be my guest, I ought to have the facts of this and the lower Bure / Bure hump on permanent copy & paste

I also ought to have the fact that some people blame not being able to get through regularly like we used to do on larger craft - llboxo - what about the hundreds if not thousands of craft that were built with PHB in mind that used to be able to get through but it is now rare for them to do so, including our own 'B.A ?

Griff

[RS2021]

19 hours ago, PaulN said:

Also would have to be just before a spring tide, knowing that it will be even lower a day or 2 later.

Is this true as far as bridge clearance is concerned? When I was looking at Ludham bridge clearance I got river level data for Ranworth and Barton and it seems to show that the lowest river levels follow neap tides. I put this down to more river water being allowed to flow out for longer on the lower tides so resulting in greater clearance at the bridge. So even though a spring tide is lower at the coast, this doesn't necessarily mean lower water upstream. I'd be interested to know if this effect is seen in practice.

[BroadAmbition]

That's the Bure hump for you, doing what the Ba want it to do otherwise it wouldn't ever have been allowed to form

Griff

[CambridgeCabby]

It’s not just PH bridge , all the guides will tell you the average high water level in the summer at Ludham bridge is 8ft6in whereas the last few years 8ft6in has been more like the low tide average during summer months , the last three winters the low water level is more often than not 8ft or even less.

20 years ago we frequently passed at any stage of the tide with 8ft6in clearance occasionally down to 8ft4in , just ask George at LBBY how often he has been flooded the last couple of years