BA Or Rspb

[Paladin]

I don't know whether the recipients of the letter were those who mudweight on the broad or the ones who trespass moor along the Ant, but five boats belonging to the latter have just moved onto Sutton Staithe (yes, the bit with the water and electricity). The shooting-oneself-in-the-foot season is well and truly open.

[BrundallNavy]

1 hour ago, Paladin said:

I don't know whether the recipients of the letter were those who mudweight on the broad or the ones who trespass moor along the Ant, but five boats belonging to the latter have just moved onto Sutton Staithe (yes, the bit with the water and electricity). The shooting-oneself-in-the-foot season is well and truly open.

But by mooring there the BA will have to go down the court route to move them on which takes months. They did this at Norwich a few years ago when bailiffs turned up most just moved a few hundred feet onto someone’ else land and have slowly migrated back to the original area. One even has a pass for the security gate. 

[MauriceMynah]

To Floydraser,  I don’t know what all the options open to me were, nor did the citizens advice bureau.  My circumstances were not the usual. Without going too deeply into my personal details,  it boiled down to being too rich for authority help but too poor to go it alone. A boat was all I could afford.

I have to disagree with what you say about "in this day and age".

[Vaughan]

8 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

It seems more and more that both the RSPB and BA are only interested in their own agenda.

I think they prefer to call it "working with partners".

[Bikertov]

2 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

To Floydraser,  I don’t know what all the options open to me were, nor did the citizens advice bureau.  My circumstances were not the usual. Without going too deeply into my personal details,  it boiled down to being too rich for authority help but too poor to go it alone. A boat was all I could afford.

I have to disagree with what you say about "in this day and age".

For those of us fortunate enough to have a nice roof over our head, with a car in the driveway and food in the cupboards -  we cannot presume or judge the situation others find themselves in.

I respect and applaud those in more challenging situations who have the strength, will and character to pull themselves out of those situations in whatever (legal) way they can, and without burdening the state more than they need to.

[CambridgeCabby]

The BA and local councils are both guilty of NIMBYism , a council operated marina for those unable to afford either a home or a mooring would help many of these constant cruisers with the benefit of a permanent address which would certainly help those seeking gainful employment ; the current policy of moving them from pillar to post does not work and never will .

[floydraser]

2 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

The BA and local councils are both guilty of NIMBYism , a council operated marina for those unable to afford either a home or a mooring would help many of these constant cruisers with the benefit of a permanent address which would certainly help those seeking gainful employment ; the current policy of moving them from pillar to post does not work and never will .

How many liveaboards on the Broads are there because it's cheap living and how many are there for the alternative lifestyle?

[MauriceMynah]

I estimate between 30 and 40 liveaboards on the Ant alone. I'm yer to meet one who has just made it a lifestyle choice though I have heard some say that they'd be reluctant to return to a house or flat.

[YnysMon]

I fear that many who opt for a boat as as a home, when that’s just about their almost affordable life, get stuck into a very poor quality of life. Some boats are relatively cheap to buy, not so cheap to maintain.I can’t imagine what it would be like to live on a boat that is deteriorating around me, knowing I don’t have the money to fix it.

This may be completely unfair, but I have an idea that our Pozzick might have been a live-aboard pet. He’s certainly been very well loved by someone. We don’t think he’s been abused as he’s so trusting. Maybe he belonged to someone who couldn’t afford to feed him any longer? If that’s the case, I’m sure they must be missing him. He’s quite a character. Thankfully, he’s really settled with us and he and Seren get on well, despite being opposites in temperament. 

[floydraser]

13 minutes ago, YnysMon said:

I fear that many who opt for a boat as as a home, when that’s just about their almost affordable life, get stuck into a very poor quality of life. Some boats are relatively cheap to buy, not so cheap to maintain.I can’t imagine what it would be like to live on a boat that is deteriorating around me, knowing I don’t have the money to fix it.

This is a good point. Some seem to assume that most liveaboards are there through ill fortune. We can never know an individual's personal circumstances of course.

If a local council did have a marina as suggested by Cambridge Cabby, they would be encouraging people into the circumstances suggested here by YnysMon. Whereas a council house is owned and maintained by the council, housing association etc. 

Such a marina would have to have good transport links if these people are actively seeking work, which they would have to prove to keep their benefits. So thats Norwich then. 

[rightsaidfred]

5 hours ago, floydraser said:

This is a good point. Some seem to assume that most liveaboards are there through ill fortune. We can never know an individual's personal circumstances of course.

If a local council did have a marina as suggested by Cambridge Cabby, they would be encouraging people into the circumstances suggested here by YnysMon. Whereas a council house is owned and maintained by the council, housing association etc. 

Such a marina would have to have good transport links if these people are actively seeking work, which they would have to prove to keep their benefits. So thats Norwich then. 

Looking at this from a different perspective I can see one glaring issue here as to perspective and context, the Broads livaboards are a miniscule part of a national explosion, here all livaboards are visable  from the water, on my local river Lee and many canal stretches the towpath is all livaboards as far as the eye can see many in far worse condition than most of the Broads ones, the difference is that they are only visable where a road or  rail line crosses unless you walk the towpath.

Homelessness and squatters is a national problem.

Fred 

[YnysMon]

Homelessness is indeed a National problem. I don't want to get political, as it’s a situation that seems to have got progressively worse under several governments, but it’s seems incredible to me that we have so much homelessness’s now when it’s was almost unheard of when I was young. And yet, on the whole, we are a more affluent society that we were in the 69s and 70s. Just judging that by the things that most of us take for granted nowadays. My Mum got her first car in 1966 and we didn’t have a phone in our house until about 1972. 

[rightsaidfred]

3 hours ago, YnysMon said:

Homelessness is indeed a National problem. I don't want to get political, as it’s a situation that seems to have got progressively worse under several governments, but it’s seems incredible to me that we have so much homelessness’s now when it’s was almost unheard of when I was young. And yet, on the whole, we are a more affluent society that we were in the 69s and 70s. Just judging that by the things that most of us take for granted nowadays. My Mum got her first car in 1966 and we didn’t have a phone in our house until about 1972. 

Not necessarily political or even financial, ex-service ptsd is one factor, over population another, there is no one size fits all that's why comments without known facts is inappropriate at best.

Fred

[Ray]

Right to buy! Good idea in principal of course but it could only ever work without causing homelessness if a proper replacement building prorgram was executed.

Again, this is not political because there are many reasons why the rental housing stock could not be replenished and there are many other reasons for homelessness. It's just one of the factors.

[Mouldy]

5 hours ago, YnysMon said:

Homelessness is indeed a National problem. I don't want to get political, as it’s a situation that seems to have got progressively worse under several governments, but it’s seems incredible to me that we have so much homelessness’s now when it’s was almost unheard of when I was young. And yet, on the whole, we are a more affluent society that we were in the 69s and 70s. Just judging that by the things that most of us take for granted nowadays. My Mum got her first car in 1966 and we didn’t have a phone in our house until about 1972. 

But didn’t we have affordable social housing back in the sixties and seventies.  Many folk have made a great deal of money by buying their council house.  Good luck to them, but replacing them with housing associations, who are businesses to make money and private landlords who appear to have ever expanding portfolios of rental properties to let at high prices (yes, I’ve watched Homes Under the Hammer occasionally) is no substitute for affordable social housing.

How are our children and grandchildren going to buy into our crazy housing market, when property values are so high and lenders requiring many thousands of pounds as a deposit before even considering lending a mortgage?  It’s impossible for them to save, whilst paying stupidly high rental prices.

Is it not the fault of all of us, whose desire to own a property has pushed the price of housing up to ridiculous levels?  Why are houses in most of France so much lower than over here?  Why is renting not frowned upon in much of Europe as it is over here?

We have a strange set of values in the UK, where the size of our house is a measure of status.  A big house and a BWW or Mercedes on the drive and you’re well on the way.  Climbing the housing ladder by buying ever bigger properties seems to be the goal of so many, driving the prices up as they go.

One day the bubble will burst, surely.  If there are no first time buyers, the chains will stop.  It needs to happen, so that prices fall and new buyers can get on the ladder.  Either that, or sensibly priced social housing needs to make a comeback.

My opinion obviously, but I strongly believe this to be the case.

[YnysMon]

1 hour ago, Mouldy said:

But didn’t we have affordable social housing back in the sixties and seventies.  Many folk have made a great deal of money by buying their council house.  Good luck to them, but replacing them with housing associations, who are businesses to make money and private landlords who appear to have ever expanding portfolios of rental properties to let at high prices (yes, I’ve watched Homes Under the Hammer occasionally) is no substitute for affordable social housing.

How are our children and grandchildren going to buy into our crazy housing market, when property values are so high and lenders requiring many thousands of pounds as a deposit before even considering lending a mortgage?  It’s impossible for them to save, whilst paying stupidly high rental prices.

Is it not the fault of all of us, whose desire to own a property has pushed the price of housing up to ridiculous levels?  Why are houses in most of France so much lower than over here?  Why is renting not frowned upon in much of Europe as it is over here?

We have a strange set of values in the UK, where the size of our house is a measure of status.  A big house and a BWW or Mercedes on the drive and you’re well on the way.  Climbing the housing ladder by buying ever bigger properties seems to be the goal of so many, driving the prices up as they go.

One day the bubble will burst, surely.  If there are no first time buyers, the chains will stop.  It needs to happen, so that prices fall and new buyers can get on the ladder.  Either that, or sensibly priced social housing needs to make a comeback.

My opinion obviously, but I strongly believe this to be the case.

Spot on Malcolm. Our economics seems to have got completely out of kilter.  

[Turnoar]

There is support for non bricks and mortar forms of housing, travellers sites for example. And bricks and mortar housing sometimes creates issues for people who struggle with that form. Waterborne housing does seem to be acceptable in other parts of the country and certainly across the North Sea in Holland for example. An opportunity missed in Norwich if you want to apply criteria around transport services, amenity etc.

Not political but bricks and mortar alone won’t solve homelessness, I know people who have made do with a van and made it work, seems like a boat is in a bit of goldfish bowl locally, more focus on liveaboards than the homeless...

[MauriceMynah]

I think the problem with waterborne homes is that the image is not really in keeping with the "Broads National Parks" image. On the other hand "feral boat owners" would have to be supported by the Sandford Principle after all, we are natural and need conserving.

[rightsaidfred]

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

 after all, we are natural and need conserving.

Should that be conserve or preserve.

Fred

[MauriceMynah]

Well we got to where we are by being in a bit of a jam.

[SwanR]

There’s a small group of boats that we regularly see around the various Hoveton moorings. They’re there all winter and seem to remain there all summer too. They don’t seem to go anywhere as best as one can tell. Whether that’s because of work I’ve no idea. But they stick out a mile as always being around and definitely not always moving every 24 hours. Not causing anyone any harm apart from hogging the moorings during high season. Right now very few hire boats seem to have made it through the bridge so there’s plenty of room. 

[floydraser]

We're trying not to be political but it IS political unfortunately. Poverty, the amount of homes available/being built, food banks etc are tools used by all parties to try and score political points. Some even manage to sound like they care.

[Smoggy]

9 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

Should that be conserve or preserve.

Fred

In MM's case, pickled.... 

[addicted]

Unfortunately some liveaboards have given the practice a bad name by leaving the area surrounding their boats filled with unsightly rubbish. We saw this occur frequently while on the RGO.  A live aboard would arrive and within a week or two the bank would be buried under detritus and look like a rubbish dump. Living on a boat does put having a home of their own within reach of a lot of folk who otherwise would never be able  to to do so. That has to be a good thing. Occasionally there is a TV series that features people building boats to live on. I always envy them and am tempted to follow suit however I know that the Winter would make it impossible for us, but in theory I would love to live in that environment.

 

Carole 

[Cheesey69]

One problem in providing liveaboard spaces and places, it would fill up. Then how can you say no to more?          
How would you encourage people to move on? 
Force them?