Broad Ambition - Underway on the H2O

[Victoryv]

I would happily have broken the rules and tagged my boat on the end ,just for that one off photo.

Love it !

[ZimbiIV]

I have never understood running engines for hot water.

If hiring, that energy your using is coming out of your pocket! (fuel deposit).

You want hot water for a wash (shower later) boil the damn kettle, use gas, it doesn't come out of your fuel deposit.

If you own, remember gas is cheaper than diesel/petrol.

If you have hook up use an electric kettle.

If you have a modern diesel engine, they don't like idling when cold so just move away when it's ticking over smoothly and keep the revs down until fully warm.

paul

[SueH]

21 minutes ago, ZimbiIV said:

You want hot water for a wash (shower later) boil the kettle, use gas, it doesn't come out of your fuel deposit.

If you have hook up use an electric kettle

Here, here.  Many's the time I've boiled the kettle for washing up etc.  

Years ago, in our first caravan, the only way to have a shower was boil the kettle mix it with cold in a bowl and use a small mobile shower pump.

To quote an old relative of mine.

"They don't know they are born nowadays"!

[Islander]

Hot water? Easy, I boil a kettle in the morning, usually 3 or 4 times. 1 make morning tea. 2 boil for a wash. 3 boil for other half for wash. 4 boil for next cup of tea. Start engine and warm for as long as it takes to remove mooring ropes. Leave. Arrive at next stop off, moor up, stop engine. Have proper wash/shower. Easy.

hi Griff, not been up to the Ribs in our boat as need 8ft to clear bridges but looks really nice with loads of room to turn. We also need min 3ft water. We normally moor by the first new bridge as you come into norwich and go shopping on riverside (morrisons). It's free to moor there and easy access to the town. Sadly The Ferryboat pub now long gone which had good beer, decent food and an interesting mix of bands over the weekend.

Colin in a rather damp St Olaves

[Guest]

2 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

Ricardo to answer your points:- (Just called in at our hovel whilst allowing clients floor tiles to cure).

 

Look I'm not disagreeing with you or Griff but the post clearly said " engines should not be run before 8 am" that is a recommendation that is all , yes it common decency .

Common decency - agreed - but more importantly than that it is potentially lethal in some circumstances / locations as was the case at Ranworth Staithe Monday morning.  I have not the time to go trawling through the whole of the BA's byelaws, if there isn't one concerning death by dangerous exhaust fumes, then in my opinion there dam well should be and they need updating, especially in light of recent tragic events and nowadays being more enlightened / educated.  Our onboard carbon monoxide alarms didn't go off as they are not situated in each and every cabin.  So you can stick with your opinion on recommendations, whilst I will stick to keeping me and my crew alive

 

I do however have a big problem with a later post Indicating that the river in Norwich was blocked off as it was impossible to navigate past 3 boats moored together , that is a navigational by law ie obstruction of the navigation.

Correct, guilty as charged your Lordship.   I'll no doubt be keel hauled next time afloat.  Of course what you are not aware of is that there were three craft triple moored for only approximately  five minutes while the photo was taken as prior to that Lady Christina was astern on the floating pontoon aft of 'B.A' and Star Premier (I can publish photo's if you are in any doubt).    Whilst triple moored and blocking the river there was at least one skipper onboard as can be clearly seen in the photo's keeping a lookout.    Also we checked up/down the river before getting all three craft together.  So if your big problem really is that big I suggest you contact the BA, (you have my permission to use the photo) let them deal with it then hopefully your big problem will become a little one.  I was not aware that I had to scrutinise every post in minute detail before posting same, I thought this was a discussion forum, hang on a moment that was sarcastic - apologies, I know it is a discussion forum - Sorry

 

Ricardo:-  As for hire craft leaving in fog and no one should bat an eyelid , where exactly are the nav lights on a hire boat ?  , are the covered insurance wise for travel in those conditions ?  given that they are predominantly white and virtually invisible , it's far easier to see a hire boat traveling at night ( not allowed) with the forward cabin lights on than one in the fog in daylight hrs . 

Griff:-  Nor should they bat an eyelid.   Departing / Arriving at any time of night is an acceptable evolution (Assuming of course boats have nav lights / insurance and the like) 

This one is a classic example of reading but then the brain changing the words about.  My post -  nowhere did I state hire craft.  Have a look again it's right here in front of you.  I was / still am referring to craft legally allowed to navigate at night / reduced visibility.

 

There, I hope that has respectfully answered your points.  It's good to talk

Griff

 

Griff you know,as well as I do hire boats travel in the fog that was my point nothing else purely because they have no nav lights , as for closing the navigation that's up to BA but trust me they patrol up there regularly and I'd be surprised if they said nothing about it had tgey seen it skipper on board or not , after all you did accuse the skipper at ranworth of being selfish , which he was , and I fully agree about exaust smoke and how dangerous it is , the fact is you denied possible other craft to travel up that stretch , now I know full well there are moorings before that bridge and all boats concerned could if available moored in line , obviously I don't know if it was free or not but I'm pretty sure at least one boat could have moored there hence freeing up the navigation for others to use .

Kick off with me you wish but my point is very simple , its unreasonable to class someone as selfish and do the same act . 

[Bound2Please]

I think its time to calm down

Charlie

[Vaughan]

This must be Charlie's first need for moderation.

"Sock it to 'em" Charlie!

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

I think its time to calm down

Charlie

Charlie no one is getting excited its purely a difference of opinion that is all , no one is going to agree with every one  all the time and I as has Griff a right to alternative views I personally see no reason for moderation as many threads have got far more heated well before any warnings re moderation were given . 

[addicted]

1 minute ago, Ricardo said:

Charlie no one is getting excited its purely a difference of opinion that is all , no one is going to agree with every one  all the time and I as has Griff a right to alternative views I personally see no reason for moderation as many threads have got far more heated well before any warnings re moderation were given . 

This is what makes this forum stand out from the others, We don't do "heated" on here!

 

 

Carole

[Guest]

Just now, addicted said:

This is what makes this forum stand out from the others, We don't do "heated" on here!

 

 

Carole

Exactly Carol , difference of opinion is allowed here as opposed to other places that I will not mention 

[Bound2Please]

38 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Charlie no one is getting excited its purely a difference of opinion that is all , no one is going to agree with every one  all the time and I as has Griff a right to alternative views I personally see no reason for moderation as many threads have got far more heated well before any warnings re moderation were given . 

I never said it did need moderating Ricardo, I just purely said its time to calm down, difference of opinions are just that different opinions.

Charlie

[Polly]

I fill a flask from the kettle when we have a last hot drink at night, this is good for a morning cuppa without waking sleeping crew members first thing. I do the same before sailing so that we can have a hot cuppa/cuppa soup or whatever as soon as we stop.

 

[alexandlorna]

Just so there is no doubt on both main issues, for all those who are able to read the Queens English...

Seen at Oulton Dyke

 

 

[BroadAmbition]

hi Griff, not been up to the Ribs in our boat as need 8ft to clear bridges but looks really nice with loads of room to turn. We also need min 3ft water.

You will clear the bridges easily, the lowest being Norwich Foundry 10" AHW.  As for depth, we we were well before the top of the tide and we had plenty of depth, way more than 3ft and we have the depth sounder showing water beneath the keel which is less than true river depth.  No problems with weed either. It's a lovely run up that section of river too.  Other than the three of us the only other craft we saw underway was a Ba river inspector launch (I had told them we were going up there when they were at the yacht station earlier) they followed on behind us at some distance but then waved as they passed us on their way back down river whilst we were berthing up outside the Ribs of Beef.   

I would say go and have a go, why not?  I just might take two J-of-L's and 'B.A' up there this coming October (After clearing it with H.W's beforehand of course)

Griff

[Hockham Admiral]

5 hours ago, Bound2Please said:

I think its time to calm down

Charlie

Just read this, Charlie. I completely  agree.

This is just a friendly request and NOT a "moderation warning".

[MauriceMynah]

Just out of interest (and common  sense to one side for the moment) What are the regs regarding fog/mist on the navigation?

Are lights obligatory?

[Islander]

MM, from Google.

Vessel operators must make sure that their vessels are equipped with the proper navigation lights and use the lights during these conditions:

• When away from the dock between sunset and sunrise
• During periods of restricted visibility such as fog or heavy rain

Colin

[MauriceMynah]

I'm going to try very hard not to clamber up on my soap box, as this highlights the ridiculous wording of what purports to be "regulations"

Ask the average Richardson's hirer (other boatyards are available) at what point rain becomes "heavy" or when does mist become fog. Then ask the authority who writes these regs what a hire craft is supposed to do if the mist turns to fog whilst the boat is under way, say on Braydon for example.

Having just re-read your post Islander, do the regs you've posted apply to the broads? Oh and please believe me,  I'm having a go at the regs, not at you. 

[LondonRascal]

Some time back when I was on a hire boat,  I was moored at How Hill but knew I needed to get Shiela to Ludham Bridge to catch a bus the following morning.  We duly checked the timetable for the bus and made a good plan for what time to depart come the morning, we woke to find thick fog enveloping the river.

I elected to wait as long as we could hoping that time might cause more of the fog to lift and burn off, I recon it did a little but not a great deal. Thing was it was now critical we left to get to Ludham Bridge and the bus stop.

Our plan was simple - one bright LED torch taped down atop of the cockpit and  Shiela sat at the bow as a look out.  We slowly proceeded down the river -  every 15 seconds I would sound one long blast on the horn. My reasoning being that this could cause two things to happen. Firstly that an approaching boat would hear this and know there was another boat there and perhaps cause additional caution in their progress (we both hug our respective banks type thing) and possibly a second point being they too may sound their horn. Shiela would also shout out to me if she thought she heard an approaching boats engine or bow wave at which point I'd go into neutral and we would both listen.

Well, suffice to say we made it and only passed one other boat - a privately owned one but with no navigation lights on, no sound signals and going to my mind a bit too fast.  Upon mooring at Ludham Bridge the fog had begun to lessen and she caught her bus - though it too was somewhat delayed.

Now in so doing that I may have broken a navigational rule - sure as hell probably was in breach of the hire Contract but in such a situation you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If we did nothing she has a lot to explain to her employer, not to mention a cheap ticket on a train turning into a very expensive turn up and go fare. So we knew the risks but did what we could to mitigate them which I guess is the best anyone can do. It might well be the case that 'two wrongs don't make a right' but on the other hand, it is true than three lefts make a right.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, alexandlorna said:

Just so there is no doubt on both main issues, for all those who are able to read the Queens English...

Seen at Oulton Dyke

 

 

Totally agree with that and having fitted more stoves on narrow boats than I care to remember its kinda preaching if that's the correct phase to the converted , I have personally seen the affects of co2 more than once or twice in fact one couple who's stove was so blocked were very lucky to be alive , running engines causes similar problems but 99% of the time its not C02 its noise that's the issue and the cause for complaints by third party's , I'm not entirely sure why diesel engines are not mentioned on that particular piece of information since they power the vast majority of boats on the inland waterway's and are just as dangerous as petrol engines regarding fumes but basically that information is lifted from the boat safety scheme as I'm totally in aware of anyone succumbing to C02 from a poorly fitted solid fuel stove on the broads , though there  have been quite a few on the canals but I'm willing as always to be corrected on that .

Running engines is dangerous fume wise but as said most if not all complaints relate to noise , obviously it's common decency not to but exactly what do hires get told ? For instance is that information on that sign in the skippers manual ? In fact it should be predominately place onboard ever boat as skippers manual's tend to collect more dust than observation .

[LondonRascal]

Quote

For instance is that information on that sign in the skippers manual ?

I wasn't sure so I headed over to Herbert Woods website and downloaded their copy - 60 pages so lots and lots to take it, but while it covers things like safety and ventilation, hot water and showers it does not say you should not run an engine between the '8pm and 8am'.

skippers-manual.pdf

However, since this is not a bylaw need it say it in the manual - which itself is very much based upon the long tired and tested Hoseasons manual of old?  Mind you, I am sure took a lot of time to prepare and cost to print so could well be a number of additions since it was produced that with hindsight could have been included but were not.

As I mentioned on our NBN Facebook Group, this 8pm to 8am period of non-engine running is pretty new and found shown on selected mooring signs (Irstead is an example) and if memory serves I think Dilham Staithe has one too. Also, many many foam key rings were produced and handed out to boatyards - Richardson's for sure had them and I found a one floating not so long ago (minus any keys which I have taken a photo of below).

 

So what you have here is  more of a 'campaign' by the Broads Authority, working in conjunction with boatyards though the free provision of these key rings to promote two things: Wearing of life jackets and to cut down on engine running and complaints as to this. Fuhrer more, signage at some locations (perhaps where close by properties may be and a higher instance of complaints as to boats running their engines have been made to the Broads Authority) is another part of the effort not so much to create a new bylaw but just raise awareness not to run engines too early or too late.

In so doing it leaves the average boater to join up the dots as to why this might be anti social thing to do. I think that is fair enough.

Now me personally, always was 'brought up' not to run an engine too late or early but to be fair, no thought was given about the risk from the fumes - until more recent tragic events where running engines have caused deaths (even if such in question was a private boat and partially down to its design and canopy set up). 

People have reported being moored up and a boat next to them starts their their engine and some time later their CO alarm has been triggered by the gases spreading along and into their boat. That brought it home to me personally it is not just about noise. But leave aside key rings and signs, risks and noise - should someone ask another to be considerate by turning off their engine, or even turning down a television, it baffles me as to why people do not react with sincerity and apologise and act. If I was ever moored up and someone knocked on the boat and said what Charlie did, I would not only turn the engine off I would feel ashamed and have to go and say sorry - quite why people get in a huff about it is beyond me.

[ChrisB]

I remember us leaving Malthouse in really thick fog about 5am.  The canopy was off everything dripping wet engine on tick over just in gear. About half way up Ranworth Dam we passed a Shetland 4+2 in the same mode as us, slower than walking, good job as we passed each other green to green! Oops! Very disorientating fog.

[grendel]

while not experiencing fog like this on a boat, there was one time when driving on Romney Marsh in my van, where we had both sliding doors open and were keeping between the white line at the edge of the road and the white line in the middle of the road, visibility was a few feet further than the end of the bonnet- you could not see the road surface, and there are a lot of big ditches beside the roads on the marsh. we proceeded at less than walking pace and arrived - eventually.

[Polly]

We were moored side on at Cockshoot and about to depart. The boat astern had its rear door open, everyone seated fwd with canopy open. I asked them to close their rear door as we set off to avoid fumes drifting into the boat. Of short duration and not really a danger but still unpleasant for them  on a quiet mooring.

[MauriceMynah]

8 hours ago, Ricardo said:

 I'm not entirely sure why diesel engines are not mentioned on that particular piece of information since they power the vast majority of boats on the inland waterway's and are just as dangerous as petrol engines regarding fumes

That's a very good point. Anyone know why "petrol" has been singled out?