Racism And The Colston Statue

[trambo]

15 minutes ago, TheQ said:

It wasn't a statue put up to a slave trader, it was a statue put up to some one did good in the town.

 

Agree. It was also put up by the people of Bristol as they thought he should be honoured, are we also going to condemn the then population of Bristol for doing so? A lot more can be learnt by it being on show. Hide it away and we learn nothing and in that ignorance we will understand ourselves less.

Fred

[MauriceMynah]

12 minutes ago, Poppy said:

Not sure what you are saying.  Is it that racists aren't ignorant and stupid ?

I think you know EXACTLY what I was saying, and that you are equally well aware that it was NOT what you are implying I said.

Shame on you Poppy, I had thought better of you.

[Poppy]

1 minute ago, MauriceMynah said:

I think you know EXACTLY what I was saying, and that you are equally well aware that it was NOT what you are implying I said.

Shame on you Poppy, I had thought better of you.

????

[JennyMorgan]

Politics and religion are taboo topics, generally best avoided in public discussion. Perhaps to that we should add racism.  

[Ray]

19 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Politics and religion are taboo topics, generally best avoided in public discussion. Perhaps to that we should add racism.  

No, politics and religion are subject to opinion, racism is always wrong!

[floydraser]

25 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Politics and religion are taboo topics, generally best avoided in public discussion. Perhaps to that we should add racism.  

No. I find it reassuring that the views expressed on this thread are not that extreme or far removed from my own.

If we are having a vote on which subjects should be banned, add the Broads National Park to the list please. 

[JennyMorgan]

50 minutes ago, floydraser said:

If we are having a vote on which subjects should be banned, add the Broads National Park to the list please. 

The Non Existent BNP, but that is not the topic of this thread.

[JennyMorgan]

59 minutes ago, Ray said:

racism is always wrong!

Agreed, so why are we even discussing it?

 

[trambo]

17 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Agreed, so why are we even discussing it?

 

Because we are not. What is being discussed is the monuments and statues of events and values which today we find abhorrent and if they should be left in place or removed. Has very little to do with racism as we comprehend it in todays society unless those edifices are being used to glorify what most of us find today totally unacceptable.

Fred

[Paul]

We must accept that the standards by which we judge discrimination have changed, for the better, over many years. They will almost certainly continue to do so. If you decide that it is prudent to rejudge history on the standards of today you will very quickly disappear up your own backside. 

If somebody acted within the accepted standard of their time, should they be considered racist? In years to come we too will be judged, should we be judged by the standards of today or those which might exist a century or two down the line?

Yes, it might have been wise to relocate the Bristol statue sooner, it appears after all that it has been under discussion for quite some time. I'm sure there are other, similar statues around the world which too could be judged inappropriate by today's standards. They can be moved, or removed but you cannot rewrite history. You cannot alter the fact that Bristol was built on the wealth of the slave trade as were many other towns and cities, does that mean that they should be raised to the ground? You can remove them from the face of the earth but you cannot expunge history, only learn from it. 

 

 

[ChrisB]

I can remember when I was young being told by my Great Grandmother of demonstrations by the Irish community when the statue of Oliver Cromwell was placed at Bridge Foot, in Warrington at the turn of the last century.

 

[ScrumpyCheddar]

I’ve just read that Britbox Netflix and BBC have removed Little Britain and come fly with me because it’s Racist...

Really..?? 

Because they have characters of Which David Walliams  and Matt Lucas portrays.. black people.... They have had complaints about it being offensive to others .. 
 

This is getting utterly stupid now... 

[ExSurveyor]

“... every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

George Orwell, 1984

[Chelsea14Ian]

I can't help but think I've heard this all before. So much nonsense flying around. Think much of this will not improve the cause  of equality, it may well make matters worse.Now is not the time to re write history.A black historian put it very well He said leave the statues where they are,but explain why there there.In fifty  years time people  will forget what these people  did and some racists will be placed with that.He pointed out the the Colosseum in Rome was about slaves being killed by Roman's should  that be pulled down.The same could  be said about the pyramids built  by slave labour. Should  we as a society allow a mob to change  history  without ,going through  proper discussions?We are a democratic country  we hold that close to our heart.Must not be governed by a small group.To allow otherwise is very dangerous. 

[floydraser]

1 hour ago, ScrumpyCheddar said:

I’ve just read that Britbox Netflix and BBC have removed Little Britain and come fly with me because it’s Racist...

Really..?? 

Because they have characters of Which David Walliams  and Matt Lucas portrays.. black people.... They have had complaints about it being offensive to others .. 
 

This is getting utterly stupid now... 

I agree, it is getting stupid but I always wondered how Little Britain got away with it in the first place. For me it was the same humour as in Love Thy Neighbour. But no complaints when it first aired on the BBC? 

Anyone have a copy of the album "Monty Python Live at Drury Lane"? Probably all been burned.

[ScrumpyCheddar]

Ok what I would like to know is will the film  of White Chicks be banned and taken off the TV and film channels because it could be classed as Racist.... ?? I hope not.. 

If not many of you who have not seen it watch it...  It’s a hilarious funny film.. it’s about two failed FBI agents played by Marlon and Shawn Wayans they are black actors.. Cut along story short they double up to look after twin sisters..  basically they dress up as them and have a silicone masks and make up of two white women..it’s a great film and so funny.. Now I didn’t even think about it being racist to white people never crossed my mind until earlier..  So really what’s the difference between white chicks and little Britain... Nothing it’s called humour and fun .. 

[grendel]

for me the removal of statues placenames and other historic statuary is just a knee jerk reaction, will they remove iconic statues like nelsons column in trafalgar square? Some of the statues are now historic landmarks, I believe they should remain, but have a more detailed explanation added, to explain that these are famous people for some of the things they did, but that other actions which at the time were considered acceptable, are no longer, a bit like the announcements at the beginning of most of the films on talking TV, that these reflected the attitudes and standards of the time.

History is history, we cant change that, but if we are to learn the lessons that history taught us we do need to be reminded, if we just pull down these statues and get rid of them we are likely to forget those lessons. 

I hope any statues removed will be moved to a museum and preserved, but with that full explanation. complete with the history of when and why it was moved.

[trambo]

In 1907 the  American popular singer Ada Jones made a humorous record describing the effects of the man in the moon being black. Very innocent in it's day but totally unaceptable  and rightly so, today  but the point is the listener makes that judgement and by making that judgment is stronger for it.

In 1933 the Nazi party throughout Austria and Germany had ceremonious events burning books that did not agree with their philosophy or interpretation of history, by removing the popular culture (or statues) of a period, are we not doing just that?

Fred

[Chelsea14Ian]

Theres  just been an item on BBC breakfast, about Rhodes statue in Oxford. There was  two people they spoke to, both black.Nothing wrong with that,but they both had the same opinion  about that and other statues. Both want them taken down.As I said theres a danger our history  will be re written if that happens. leave statues  there but make it clear why they are there.Taking statues down will do little  to solve this problem. What is also concerning  yet again the BBC having two people  discussing this item with very little  balance. The only slight balance  the young lady thought  there should  be a discussion  regarding  the  Rhodes statue be taken down,but she said it should  come down.

[Hylander]

16 hours ago, ChrisB said:

I can remember when I was young being told by my Great Grandmother of demonstrations by the Irish community when the statue of Oliver Cromwell was placed at Bridge Foot, in Warrington at the turn of the last century.

 

Oh dear our Oliver - wasnt he a drop out from the charm school.   From what I recall didn't he ban Christmas - wait for it that will be the next thing.    As has been said on here many times,   this is all getting stupid and really quite frightening if it is allowed to go on.     99.9% of the folk in this country just want to get on with their lives, be able to pay the rent or mortgage and feed their families and keep safe.         

[grendel]

there should be discussion before any statue is removed or just moved to a different location. plus any statue that is removed should have a piece of art commissioned to replace it. I forsee councils are going to use this as an excuse to rid themselves of statuary that they want removed for other reasons, before we know it they will be removing the cenotaph because it glorifies war.

[rightsaidfred]

11 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

Theres  just been an item on BBC breakfast, about Rhodes statue in Oxford. There was  two people they spoke to, both black.Nothing wrong with that,but they both had the same opinion  about that and other statues. Both want them taken down.As I said theres a danger our history  will be re written if that happens. leave statues  there but make it clear why they are there.Taking statues down will do little  to solve this problem. What is also concerning  yet again the BBC having two people  discussing this item with very little  balance. The only slight balance  the young lady thought  there should  be a discussion  regarding  the  Rhodes statue be taken down,but she said it should  come down.

You only had to watch yesterday mornings 9.00 news on the BBC to see where this is going, sadly the biggest worry will be a rise in nationalism as seen across Europe and the USA, they couldn`t be providing the BNP with better ammunition if they tried, this will set back all the gains of the last couple of decades if all this removal of British history is allowed to continue. 

Fred

[Tempest]

What next the monarchy as it was behind much of the troubled past of this Country...

Then of course the flag in which these attrocities were committed would need to go...

Ohh yes and all the churches and religions will be on the list of things that must go....

The list could go on and on and on!

A key element of the cycle of learning is understanding what happened in the past and ensuring that lessons are learnt, to allow people to move forward on a never ending ladder of knowledge to make damn sure that the past attrocities never happen again and are never forgotten!



Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

[batrabill]

23 minutes ago, trambo said:

In 1933 the Nazi party throughout Austria and Germany had ceremonious events burning books that did not agree with their philosophy or interpretation of history, by removing the popular culture (or statues) of a period, are we not doing just that?

No. That’s a crazy comparison. 
 

Statues are erected to celebrate, mark, laud, and promote people of note. If you can’t detect how offensive it is for a black person to walk past a statue of a slave trader every day you are probably white. 
 

No history is “erased” by removing as statue of a slave trader. In fact many more people are now aware of the facts of the past and where a great deal of the wealth of this nation came from. 
 

The Nazis comparison is false, and so far over the top it beggars belief. 

[grendel]

5 minutes ago, batrabill said:

No history is “erased” by removing as statue of a slave trader. In fact many more people are now aware of the facts of the past and where a great deal of the wealth of this nation came from. 

maybe not erased, but hidden out of sight as though it never happened. no reminders there of the things that should not be done. perhaps next we should perhaps remove books like tom sawyer or huckleberry finn, for glorifying slavery, where do we stop, for stop we must or head down the same route as germany in the 1930's.