Where to leave waste on The Broads?

[Polly]

I sent this in response to the BA consultation on Sustainable Tourism 

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/broads-authority/how-we-work/transparency/consultations

Hi Lorna,

Section 2.2 refers to environmental impact of tourism. The removal of rubbish disposal points for boaters by local councils is bound to impact negatively on the environment. We are boat owners, yet apparently our refuse will be classified as commercial waste along with that of hirers, so sidestepping the local authorities' responsibility to collect. 

This 'cost saving' will almost certainly result in fly tipping into the rivers and on banks at additional cost of removal and damage to the environment.

Families hiring, especially those with small children will have serious health concerns about bags of rubbish, possibly including nappies, accumulating on their holiday boat. The repeat visit rate would decline in the light of an experience so degraded by this short-sighted removal of bins.

I realise that this is not a BA responsibility but one being sidestepped by various local councils, but I believe that the effects will impact on the BA remit. Representation  made to these councils and to the Hire Association would seem to be needed.

As private boat owners, we would be excluded from inter-yard arrangements, so would be paying our ever increasing tolls and receiving less infrastructure support than is consistent with wishing to make the kind of regular repeated visits you identify in the plan. To make ownership worthwhile these visits need to add up.   A significant amount of toll money, perhaps 40%, is diverted to support the BA, so decreased ownership will have a financial impact on the Authority too.

One last point; the Broads is not a National Park, DEFRA and Parliament have forbidden this nomenclature, it is a Member of the National Park Family. Trading as the former is incorrect.

[JennyMorgan]

Polly, a good example for us all to consider. I haven't yet responded but I shall. One train of thought, on top of the waste issue, being the live-aboard issue, suggesting membership of the Broads Forum for the RBOA and the establishment of formal moorings for those who choose to live afloat.

[HakunaMatata]

Hi Folks,

as the most of you know i just bought a Boat to cruise the Broads.

Is that a serious talking.. dropping the waste bins ????

I want to come to the broads to relax and not living and cruising throug the rubbish.

I did spend a serious amount of money to spent my time on the broads, have somebody a contact info ? May be when they here the concerns from a outsider will keep some extra pressure on it.

[Polly]

Hi

Try this email. 

Bruce.Hanson@broads-authority.gov.uk

I just sent a version of this to the MP for Broadland, Keith Simpson. 

keith.simpson.mp@parliament.uk

 

 

 

 

 

[vanessan]

My apologies for the length of the following item, I thought it might be useful to print in full the response I had from the BA following my email to them.

1 February 2016 from the Broads Authority (Angie Leeper)

Thank you and we note your comments.  The Broads Authority are doing all we can to help with the issue of rubbish although it does not fall within our responsibilities.  I have attached a link  http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/663110/Review-of-Waste-Facilities-nc101215.pdf to a report that was put before committee which details the current position.. As you can see we have undertaken a consultation on ascertaining the current status and how this is affecting any of the areas within the Broads.  Navigation committee members have suggested that we to continue to monitor the situation over the coming season.  A similar report will go to the Broads Authority meeting and the Broads Forum this month.

 

As you can see from the report it has been suggested by members of the Navigation Committee that we hold an internal workshop later this season.

 

I have added some background information below on the issue of waste that may help explain.

 

Many thanks and

Kind regards

 

Angie Leeper

Asset Officer

 

angie.leeper@broads-authority.gov.uk

 

 

Background Information regarding the waste situation throughout the Broads area

 

Changes in the Controlled Waste Regulations that were introduced on 1 April 2012 now specify that boat waste, where the boat is used for self-catering accommodation, is now classified as commercial waste rather than before when it was classified as household waste The local authorities also confirm that waste from other vessels which do not come under this definition, although not specifically stated in the regulations, will be treated by them as commercial waste. This change in the regulations is what has brought the issue of waste to the forefront.

Under the new regulations it is designated that “the polluter” has to pay for the cost of both the collection and disposal of the waste and Norfolk County Council has confirmed that they will be charging the local authorities for the services backdated to 1 April 2012.  This has resulted in the local authorities reviewing their provision of waste facilities over the Broads area as they are not able to clearly define who the “polluter” is when looking at their provision at the various locations.  Although they are often called “boat waste bins” they are used by walkers, visitors, boaters, anglers, local residents and businesses.

 

Both North Norfolk District Council and Broadland District Council consulted with Broads Authority officers, outlining their position and proposals in regard to the future provision of waste facilities in their areas but no other local authorities.

 

The Broads Authority, although having no remit for waste facilities, requested to be included in all discussions on this important issue.

 

A position paper regarding the provision of waste facilities was produced in conjunction with the Norfolk Waste Partnership and the local authority officer liaison group but unfortunately the Broads Authority was not initially consulted or included in the preparation of the document. The paper sets out policy in regard to future provision and concludes with the following key points:

 

(a)The Broads Authority, Environment Agency, National Trust and Norfolk County Council will be expected to make arrangements for provision of services on their land.

 

(b)Owners of private moorings or where mooring charges are made will not be provided with free services

 

(c)Provision of facilities on other land such as Parish Council land will be determined locally.  Facilities are more likely to be retained where they serve a mix of visitor uses; both boat and land transport and are associated with other service provision such as public conveniences.

 

(d)Implementation will be at the end of October 2014 to allow time for alternative arrangements to be implemented by those concerned.

 

(Update as of 16 January 2016  - Broadland have already reduced their provision from 6 to   3 sites and North Norfolk have reduced by one site and intend to withdraw all of their facilities with the exception of, Irstead, Neatishead and Riverside Road, Wroxham by  the beginning of the summer season)

                                

A meeting was held on 8 September 2014 at the request of the Broads Authority where representatives from all of the local authorities, Norfolk County Council and the Broads Hire Boat Federation were in attendance.  The local authorities have all now confirmed what facilities will be provided and those that will be withdrawn, and so together with facilities provided by Boatyards/marinas a map and list of waste provision sites has been produced

 

The Broads Authority freehold sites where provision is currently provided by the relevant local authority and are to be withdrawn are Wayford Bridge, Dilham Staithe and Ranworth Staithe. Given the fly tipping issues at Ranworth Staithe when the compactor skip was removed last winter, it is has been agreed  that the Broads Authority as landowner should continue to provide this service. Quotes have been sought, and the annual costs for an equivalent service to that being discontinued by Broadland District Council is approximately £ 5,000. However, the 24hr moorings at both Dilham Staithe and Wayford Bridge are limited moorings and it is suggested that the local rangers monitor the sites after the bins are removed to determine whether any future facilities are likely to be required.  The replacement service to be provided by the Broads Authority is already in place for the Ranworth site.

The Authority has also noticed an increase in volume of refuse disposal at Great Yarmouth Yacht Station and Norwich Yacht Station over the last season, at an additional £1,000 p.a. and it is expected that this trend will continue.

 

In order to avoid fly tipping as a result of boaters being ignorant of the location of facilities, the  information has been produced for inclusion in the skippers manual which is placed on each hire boat, published on the Broads Authority websites, and included in relevant Broads Authority publications to ensure that the boating public are aware of the locations for waste facility provision.

 

Information signs will also be placed at Broads Authority moorings to provide information on the location of nearest sites both upstream and downstream of each mooring to aid boaters.

 

The Navigation Committee were consulted on this issue at their meeting on 23rd October 2014. They supported replacement rubbish facilities at Ranworth, on the basis that the Broads Authority as landowner was liable. However, they advised against taking on liability for facilities on third party land. 

 

It was proposed that the Broads Authority to continue to monitor the situation over the coming period, to see whether further issues arose at other sites, and that consideration be given to a further project in future for a more comprehensive waste facility provision in future years should the need be determined.

...................................................................................................................................

I think if more people contacted the BA about this matter, eventually someone, somewhere, might take notice but I won't hold my breath!

 

[vanessan]

I also meant to add that if new people like Hakuna Matata contact the authority with their concerns, it might help. Polly has provided more contact details as well so it is time to start bombarding the appropriate quarters.

(ps - welcome to the Broads and the forum HM, rather belated. You have chosen a fab place to explore notwithstanding our rubbish problems!) 

[HakunaMatata]

24 minutes ago, vanessan said:

it is suggested that the local rangers monitor the sites after the bins are removed to determine whether any future facilities are likely to be required.

Lol.. what kind of guys are sitting there.. was the bins used in the past so they are needed...what kind of a administrative joke.

If i am getting it right.. for the fault buying a boat instead of hiring it i have to seach for the next bin.. and eventually i have to pay for it, which would come on top of the toll.

 

Thanks for the contact info.. the y will get a mail.

 

I am not against business or making money, raising tolls if the rest is nice and easy.

I think the Guys hanging around and producing that kind of rubbish are overpaid. May be there infiltrated by Germans now .

 

[LondonRascal]

The problem is - we are all playing an experiment to see what happens. 

The authorities (both the Council and Broads Authority) are hoping that come the high season with thousands of families holidaying both on hire and private craft, everyone will be responsible and take their rubbish either to one of the very few remaining rubbish bin locations, to their private marina's bins or if a hire boat their home yard or one as a member of the Hire Boat Federation. 

IF everyone does this, IF the bins at these locations don’t become fly covered, maggot infested stinking dumps, then the authorities will breathe a sigh of relief and no doubt be jumping up and down with pleasure and able whenever anybody questions the policy to the success, money saving and good old public for being so environmentally responsible.  

Of course, if it does go the other way and black bin bags are seen at popular moorings left for local wildlife to scavenge from, no doubt spreading the waste far and wide with ripped up plastic bags.  Where there are bins these may not be able to cope or be emptied often enough causing great piles of bags and all the associated risks/smells that go with that then the authorities will have a lot of questions to answer – for do they then continue to sit back and do nothing while photos will be shared online, stories published in the local papers and so on. 

The real annoyance to me is the savings being talked about are not massive sums of hundreds of thousands of pounds a year being redirected to other cash strapped services it is a few tens of thousands here and there.

[HakunaMatata]

36 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

The problem is - we are all playing an experiment to see what happens. 

But why they do it this way.. they risk damage to the wildlive, upset people and so on.

Leaving the bins check how much rubbish/waste has to be removed and than decide.. no risk and you get perfect figures and numbers to deal with.

Now we all pay for the removal.. may be less visitors in the future and than, i am pretty sure the reinstallation.

And we are not talking about extra time, fuel just to get the houshold waste as commercial waiste disposed.

Broom should construct a smell proof waste dinghy 

[ranworthbreeze]

Workshops & Feasibility Studies, the answer to everything these days,what ever happened to decisive actions to problems?

Regards

Alan

[SteveO]

I have written to the NNDC, Broads Authority, Norfolk County Council and Environment Minister. The responses I have received consist  of  standard letters containing bland platitudes or buck-passing. It seems that the idiots-that-be are waiting for evidence of a problem before they do anything about it, by which time it will probably be too late, or too expensive.

The upshot of this for now is that, as a private boat owner, I can no longer legally dispose of waste in Norfolk via the normal domestic waste stream, as my waste has been arbitrarily (and probably illegally)  deemed to be trade waste.

As a learned colleague once said to me. The trouble with common sense is that it is not very common.

Steve

 

 

 

[jeffbroadslover]

Robin ,

I am surprised by your comments re black bin bags and other plastic bags being dumped here, there and everywhere.

Don't you know that we are all being encouraged to use paper bags instead of plastic ones..........it's better for the environment as they rot quicker so there is a chance the contents will do the same.

 

Jeff

[JennyMorgan]

Locally I now have to pay to use my green wheelie bin, garden & organic waste for composting. Sod that for a game of soldiers, I shoot it into my grey bin, non recyclable stuff for landfill. Darn certain I'm not the only one to do that. When we were issued with green bins we were assured that composting would provide more than sufficient income to cover the cost. 

In the meantime, where will visiting dogs deposit their poo? Hopefully not in my hedge! 

[ranworthbreeze]

14 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Locally I now have to pay to use my green wheelie bin, garden & organic waste for composting. Sod that for a game of soldiers, I shoot it into my grey bin, non recyclable stuff for landfill. Darn certain I'm not the only one to do that. When we were issued with green bins we were assured that composting would provide more than sufficient income to cover the cost. 

In the meantime, where will visiting dogs deposit their poo? Hopefully not in my hedge! 

Hi Peter we were faced with that in Sheffield two or three years ago, there are so few people that pay for the service, maybe two or three per street. I already composted most of our green waste and just tended to put the weeds into the green bins, so they now go into our black bins.

Sheffield struggled to meet its recycling quota before they withdrew the green bin service. so heaven knows how they balance the books now.

Regards

Alan

[BroadScot]

We have brown bins for garden waste, collected twice a month from late February till late October, they in turn sell later as compost £2.00p a bag. Blue bins for glass, paper and plastic, and green for general waste from your house. 

It appears to work well so far after approx 10 years or so.

Iain

[Polly]

Yes our brown bin service is 'free' well 'on the rates' and seems to work well. 

Peter you already pay for waste collection, it's a cheek expecting you to pay twice!

[Baitrunner]

Breckland charge us if we want a brown bin for garden waste. I think they sell the compost on as well.

[Springsong]

So do I have this right. If I spend a week on the Broads on Star Premiere as a private boat, I keep all my rubbish and take it to my home  just outside Stalham and put the rubbish in my bin at home I am in fact breaking the "law" because it is commercial waste and my bins are not commercial. Stalham by the way is in North Norfolk D.C.

I can feel a letter coming on.

Go figure.

[BroadAmbition]

I am in fact breaking the "law" because it is commercial waste and my bins are not commercial. I can feel a letter coming on.

Cracking point that SP,  Pse E-mail me a copy of your letter so I can alter it slightly and fire it off to the same bunch of shiny trousered idiots

Griff

[JennyMorgan]

7 hours ago, Polly said:

Yes our brown bin service is 'free' well 'on the rates' and seems to work well. 

Peter you already pay for waste collection, it's a cheek expecting you to pay twice!

For our 'green waste' we are now expected to pay £45.00 p.a. for a fortnightly collection, on top of the forty plus quid a week I pay for council tax already. Not a huge amount, I admit, but still an imposition. As it is I produce more compost than I need so burn quite a lot of green waste. For that 'sin' I received a letter from the council telling me that bonfires are discouraged bla bla bla. I don't often retaliate but that did get my back up!

[finny]

The council i work for are on target to save 3 Million per year on landfill fees - all done through re-cycling more and better ..........it can be done and still provide service ...........well apart from in Norfolk it seems 

 

Flytipfin

 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Down here in Sunny East Dorset, we have a large green lidded bin for recycling, a large brown lidded bin for garden waste which is a paid for option, which we have, and a smaller black bin for general household waste (landfill), plus a green box with black lid for glass, and a small all brown kitchen waste bin, which we use as a compost bin outside the kitchen door, which then gets emptied into OUR compost bin. Ours seems to work very well, but the neighbours had some extra black bin bags left behind as they would`nt fit in the bin. We also have a garden incinerator, and a lot of burnables gets burned up.

 

As for the bins on the Broads, i`l dispose of ANY waste in ANY bin near to hand. Yet again, authority is NOT doing what it`s payed to and supposed to, and must be forced into doing so by direct action. If the rubbish is there, it simply MUST be dealt with. I`m not advocating fly tipping, god forbid, but rubbish MUST be disposed of as quickly and safely as possible.

One other thing,  NOBODY should ever consider picking up, inspecting, and / or disposing of other peoples litter, or litter lying around. It`s a serious health hazard, and should be seriously frowned upon.  The relevent services are prepared for these tasks, you are not, so do NOT risk any health issues.

 

[finny]

You are right the relevant services are prepared for these tasks . It's called a pair of rubber gloves 

i think we have to have a bit of common sense here .....picking up a fish and chip paper and off the floor and sticking it in a near by bin is hardly any health hazard or likely to see with a. Fixed penalty slapped on your forehead 

there is no room for move from service providers with budget cuts and the general rule of thumb is that business pays even schools pay out of their budgets .my guess is that there is a back room battle going on between Authorities has to who pays 

 

i have to put up with " I pay my council tax " phone calls all day so for the miss informed that amounts to a couple of quid week the any other amont you pay is for the 700 odd other services that provided daily 

 

anyway got to go now and wash me shiny pants ready for Monday .........have a good weekend folks 

 

finny

[LondonRascal]

On 17/02/2016 at 6:55 PM, jeffbroadslover said:

Robin ,

I am surprised by your comments re black bin bags and other plastic bags being dumped here, there and everywhere.

Don't you know that we are all being encouraged to use paper bags instead of plastic ones..........it's better for the environment as they rot quicker so there is a chance the contents will do the same.

 

Jeff

I am confused Jeff,

While we may be encouraged to use paper bags (or reuse plastic bags) to help the environment, there is no way I think anyone would like to use paper bags for putting rubbish in.  With most of the country now having fortnightly waste collection, can you imagine the mess in peoples wheelie bins as soggy paper 'bin bags' fell apart.

My point was that people may very well leave waste (plastic bin bags) at moorings such as St. Benet's - and this then will attract wild life to them - to rip said bag open to get at the contents, thus spreading it around making even more mess.

I think it will only take one or two people to leave some rubbish for then many more others to see this and add to it - sort of 'they did it so shall we' mentality. However, time will tell.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

3 hours ago, LondonRascal said:

I am confused Jeff,

While we may be encouraged to use paper bags (or reuse plastic bags) to help the environment, there is no way I think anyone would like to use paper bags for putting rubbish in.  With most of the country now having fortnightly waste collection, can you imagine the mess in peoples wheelie bins as soggy paper 'bin bags' fell apart.

My point was that people may very well leave waste (plastic bin bags) at moorings such as St. Benet's - and this then will attract wild life to them - to rip said bag open to get at the contents, thus spreading it around making even more mess.

I think it will only take one or two people to leave some rubbish for then many more others to see this and add to it - sort of 'they did it so shall we' mentality. However, time will tell.

Robin,

in a bizzare way, i think that`s what is needed, as if EVERYONE was to put rubbish beside bins so that the place becomes an eyesore, local authorities will HAVE to do something to stop it, and the cheapest thing is to provide a regular reliable refuse service.

Finny,

i would disagree with your comment re budget cuts being a reason to stop refuse collection. My ex girlfriend (before Karen and i got together) worked for the Kent education department as a data bod of some sort. Several times a year, she would be off work on so called "team building" excersise. These team building excersises could be anything from an all expenses payed coach trip to the theatre with dinner thrown in, all expenses payed day trips to france, again with food thrown in, she even had a family weekend at Alton towers, though she did have to pay for the food on that one. When i quized her about why they had these "team building excersises", she said it was because they did`nt spend all their annual budget, and had to use the money somehow, or next years budget would be cut by the amount saved on this years budget.  She was`nt very happy when i said it`s immoral wasting public money like that when they should be doing their best to cut unnessecary expenditure.

The simple facts are that a huge amount of tax payers money is being diverted to such things as "team building excersises", rather than being saved, which could pay for the now non existant refuse collection bins and service by many local authorities, such as Norfolk, and now as i`ve recently found out, down here in nearby Christchurch.

Tax is OUR money, and WE the tax paying public should have the last word on what OUR tax money is being spent on.