Survey No1

[OldBerkshireBoy]

18 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

My thought has long been that a lock incorporated into the bridge would be a reasonable way forward.

Anyone ever witnessed Lock rage?

Can get a little bit feisty.

[MauriceMynah]

Fred,  IF and I do mean "if" it is found that dredging the lower Bure is the solution, then it's the BA's duty to get it done.

To 'let them off the hook' by just learning to live with it would be setting a very dangerous precedent

[rightsaidfred]

17 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Fred,  IF and I do mean "if" it is found that dredging the lower Bure is the solution, then it's the BA's duty to get it done.

To 'let them off the hook' by just learning to live with it would be setting a very dangerous precedent

If that is the case I agree with you, I took your post to be focused on bypassing the bridge in one way or another and that is what my response was reffering to.

Fred

 

[MotorBoater]

12 hours ago, YnysMon said:

 

(Dare I whisper...Wroxham Bridge?)

Leave it as it is. Raising either bridge (Assuming permission was granted) would mean raising the approaches too, where would you stop ? Raise them a couple of feet and by the time it was done there would still be boats that can't get through.

We have factored the cost of a day boat at Wroxham into our longer holiday because we want to visit Coltishall and we know the hire boat is too big and we accept it is what it is. We may do the same for Potter next year - or not.

Reading what has gone before seemingly implies a much bigger issue in that the BA may be failing a statutory duty of care if there are no investigations/surveys into the effects upstream of dredging the lower Bure and the resulting water levels.

Is this the case ?

[JennyMorgan]

24 minutes ago, MotorBoater said:

Reading what has gone before seemingly implies a much bigger issue in that the BA may be failing a statutory duty of care if there are no investigations/surveys into the effects upstream of dredging the lower Bure and the resulting water levels.

Is this the case ?

The Authority has long been keen on desktop studies, anything other than get out in the field. That appears to be changing and I have actually seen them engaging in practical surveys. I would like to think that they are seeking projects that need doing rather than seeking excuses for not doing and actually I'm quietly confident it's swinging over to the former. As I understand it they now have a specification to work to which is logical although not always the answer. Granted that hydrology is a complex issue but I am not convinced that a one size fits all approach is entirely the answer, such issues as flow and the tidal flush for example. I do know that the EA has a tidal model for the Broads as part of the flood alleviation scheme, as well as practical expertise, and I understand that this is now available to the BA, I hope so.  The BA certainly has the grunt to do the job but it also has a backlog largely of its own making.  Disposal of spoil is probably the biggest problem, or rather the BA's attitude towards it is. Put it back where it came from, on the bank! In the meantime, on balance (that will please Marshman) I think that the Authority is actually doing a pretty good job with its dredging program, nevertheless it could do more, apparently it has good and useful plant moored up and idle at the Thorpe yard.

Broadland Tom, perhaps you can tell us. Is the Authority getting on top of the backlog of maintenance or is the list of jobs to be done still growing? Very often it is not the big jobs that need doing, rather it is the smaller ones that tend to get over looked. 

[grendel]

I think this is the thread where we delved into the subject in great detail previously

 

[tim]

Jacking up bridges, whilst not impossible, the potential damage would mean you'll never getting permission

We're going through PH bridge this June, but it will be a day boat, we did it a couple of years ago but only reached the Pleasure Boat in the time we had hired

This year I've already spoken to Maycraft who will hire me a day boat at very good prices and look after my hire boat and do a couple of pump outs while we're gone, win win win!

[YnysMon]

Another option is to hire from Whispering Reeds, based at Hickling. In a day (9 to 5) we got through to Horsey, had lunch in The Nelson Head, an afternoon trip up to West Somerton and back and spent the final hour exploring Catfield Dyke.

[grendel]

I think Martham ferry also do day boats (just the other side of Candle Dyke).

[CambridgeCabby]

10 minutes ago, grendel said:

I think Martham ferry also do day boats (just the other side of Candle Dyke).

That they do , we hired a picnic boat from them and they also had a few day boats 

[marshman]

The Martham Ferry boats are very good - as are their sailing boatsII

If Tom is still listening, perhaps he could give an update as PW suggests - several years ago they used to publish an annual update on their dredging schedules on the website - that seems to have disappeared sadly as it would have answered the question. I suspect it is still around but perhaps not being published?

[JennyMorgan]

And surveys are being carried out!

 

[BroadsAuthority]

2 hours ago, marshman said:

The Martham Ferry boats are very good - as are their sailing boatsII

If Tom is still listening, perhaps he could give an update as PW suggests - several years ago they used to publish an annual update on their dredging schedules on the website - that seems to have disappeared sadly as it would have answered the question. I suspect it is still around but perhaps not being published?

Good afternoon @marshman and @JennyMorgan

I am not sure why we stopped publishing this information in a formal manner but off the top of my head we've got a fair amount of work coming up. I'll have a chat with our Rivers Engineer and see what I can do in terms of getting an up to date schedule.

Tom

[MotorBoater]

I have spent all afternoon on the BA website reading various minutes of meetings and I have had a bash at the current local plan too. Talk about Information Overload !

I get the efforts towards (Selected) surveys and I get the current (Selected) dredging plans. I also get the budget restrictions and the need to live within budgets. All commendable and to be lauded.

What I was trying to ask is if there had ever been, or will there be, a "Professional" investigation into the effects of dredging the lower Bure with regard to the water levels further upstream, particularly at the bridges referenced by this thread.

I have found concern that high coastal water levels have apparently impacted the ability of the rivers to run out but no reference at all to the possibility of the lower reaches silting up which should, I think, have the same effect.

I am not an engineer and bow to superior scientific knowledge, especially based on current info, but if there is no current info all we are left with is opinions.

I'm not trying to be difficult or controversial or sensational. I'm simply wondering if the state of the lower reaches is known for a fact, or belief.

Maybe the Hydrographic Surveys of Oulten Broad and Dyke scheduled for this week will give a clue. I think the Yare from Reedham to Breydon is in there too. No mention of the lower Bure though.

[D46]

39 minutes ago, MotorBoater said:

I have spent all afternoon on the BA website reading various minutes of meetings and I have had a bash at the current local plan too. Talk about Information Overload !

I get the efforts towards (Selected) surveys and I get the current (Selected) dredging plans. I also get the budget restrictions and the need to live within budgets. All commendable and to be lauded.

What I was trying to ask is if there had ever been, or will there be, a "Professional" investigation into the effects of dredging the lower Bure with regard to the water levels further upstream, particularly at the bridges referenced by this thread.

I have found concern that high coastal water levels have apparently impacted the ability of the rivers to run out but no reference at all to the possibility of the lower reaches silting up which should, I think, have the same effect.

I am not an engineer and bow to superior scientific knowledge, especially based on current info, but if there is no current info all we are left with is opinions.

I'm not trying to be difficult or controversial or sensational. I'm simply wondering if the state of the lower reaches is known for a fact, or belief.

Maybe the Hydrographic Surveys of Oulten Broad and Dyke scheduled for this week will give a clue. I think the Yare from Reedham to Breydon is in there too. No mention of the lower Bure though.

And yet to survey the lower bure while out of season and little river traffic seems the logical thing to do , does anyone know the last time it was surveyed ??? 

[JennyMorgan]

I note that the hydrographic surveys are for the purpose of checking water depth in regard to future dredging requirements. Fine but the rivers are a natural resource and as such have variations and those in turn create and control so much of what we know as The Broads.  Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree but I do see a general lack of understanding in regard to the ebb and flow of our rivers. 

[BroadAmbition]

Hydrographic Surveys?

Really?

At high tide no doubt?

Cynical I know but the Ba over the years have done nothing but make me cynical almost as much as 'Our' politicians

Griff

[charlesa]

Bit late to the game but left as is.

[BroadsAuthority]

Good morning,

I'm pleased to provide a provisional schedule for our 20/21 dredging operations as sent to me by our Rivers Engineer.

It's worth pointing out that the below information is provisional and does not account for unforeseen changes in things such as resources and weather conditions, however if all things go to plan this is what our dredging team will be up to.

Further specific details on specific dredging works and their impact on navigation are shared on our notices to mariners/boating news section of our website (https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/navigating-the-broads/boating-news) and our social media.

Thanks,

Tom

[JennyMorgan]

Plough dredging on the Lower Bure, I'm not familiar with that term. Is that where the silt is dislodged on the ebb so that, hopefully, the sediment is washed out to sea? 

Oulton Broad, bug*er, that will upset the bream! 

[Upcycler]

I was there at Potter a few years ago now and my first point would be to make it safe for pedestrians, unless it has been done by now as I didn't feel safe crossing it with oncoming traffic. I do love the bridge and it has a lot of history behind it and when I was there for me, I felt that I have missed out some exploring of the Broads because of that bridge.

I would like to keep the bridge but I would love to explore upstream on my sleeper boat, so I'm sure to go around would be beneficial to all.

[TheQ]

The simple way to make Potter old bridge safer for pedestrians would be to ban Vehicular traffic. There is easy access to both sides by Vehicles anyway.. Drop down barriers would allow access for anything that rarely did need access. It would protect the bridge from damage as well..

The Hydrographic surveys have been online for some years, 2015? and hopefully the new one will show that there have been improvements in dredging in places.. Particularly up at the approaches to Hickling and up by the sailing club. and the down river exit of the Bure at Horning..

[vanessan]

14 minutes ago, TheQ said:

The simple way to make Potter old bridge safer for pedestrians would be to ban Vehicular traffic. There is easy access to both sides by Vehicles anyway.. Drop down barriers would allow access for anything that rarely did need access. It would protect the bridge from damage as well..

On the face of it that seems to me to be a very sensible suggestion. Anyone else any thoughts on it?  (Might stop the bridge from sinking further too!  )

[Poppy]

19 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Plough dredging on the Lower Bure, I'm not familiar with that term. Is that where the silt is dislodged on the ebb so that, hopefully, the sediment is washed out to sea? 

Oulton Broad, bug*er, that will upset the bream! 

Perhaps a use has been found for SOB at last 

[BroadsAuthority]

19 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Plough dredging on the Lower Bure, I'm not familiar with that term. Is that where the silt is dislodged on the ebb so that, hopefully, the sediment is washed out to sea? 

Oulton Broad, bug*er, that will upset the bream! 

Hi @JennyMorgan

Plough (or rake/agitation dredging as it is sometimes known) uses a bar or blade with spikes, which is pulled over the seabed behind a suitable ship or boat. It is used mainly in shallow water. As the boat and the tide current pulls the bar, the spikes scrape the seabed material loose, and the tide current washes the material away, hopefully to deeper water. This has an effect similar to that of a bulldozer on land, levelling out sediment on the seabed.

The work will be taking place on isolated sediment shoals on the Lower Bure and Breydon Water during March. It is difficult to pinpoint an exact time as to when the works will take place, as this has to happen on the strongest ebb tides between high slack water and low slack water during daylight hours to ensure the sediment ends up where we want it to.

Hope that's helpful!

Tom