Investigations Into Speeding Vessels

[BroadsAuthority]

Hi all,

We are currently investigating a number of reports of speedboats behaving dangerously and speeding in the Broads area over the last few months. This includes the ongoing investigations referenced in threads on this forum from earlier in summer.

If any members of the public have seen these – or any other vessels speeding – the Authority would welcome evidence by way of witness statements and/or photographs. Witnesses must be prepared to give a statement and go to court if necessary otherwise their evidence may not be admissible in the potential prosecution.

Please make initial contact to Broads Control on 01603 756056 or Broads.Control@broads-authority.gov.uk if you can help.

Thank you

Tom

[Upcycler]

On 03/09/2020 at 15:46, BroadsAuthority said:

Witnesses must be prepared to give a statement and go to court if necessary otherwise their evidence may not be admissible in the potential prosecution.

This is where I believe why possibly alot of offenders get away with speeding on the broads, as people would think is it worth the bother as no one got injured. Perhaps BA could invest in cameras in the hot spots, as they are getting much more affordable and technologically advanced .

[Vaughan]

Personally I don't think there is a lot of serious speeding on the Broads these days . . .    Not compared to how it used to be.

Prosecuting someone for speeding is actually very difficult.  It is not enough to say they were making a wash, as a dinghy with an outboard can be making much too much wash at 5MPH, but a classic, 40ft Broads built cruiser will still make no wash at 7MPH.  It very much depends on the boat.

With speed limits as low as 4MPH it is very hard to prove in court, that a boat was actually exceeding it.  Damage caused by excessive wash, is a different matter.

[MaceSwinger]

Personally I don't think there is a lot of serious speeding on the Broads these days . . .    Not compared to how it used to be.
Prosecuting someone for speeding is actually very difficult.  It is not enough to say they were making a wash, as a dinghy with an outboard can be making much too much wash at 5MPH, but a classic, 40ft Broads built cruiser will still make no wash at 7MPH.  It very much depends on the boat.
With speed limits as low as 4MPH it is very hard to prove in court, that a boat was actually exceeding it.  Damage caused by excessive wash, is a different matter.

Is it not specified in the by-laws that just cresting excessive wash is an offence in itself? I can't remember if I read something along those lines.

Sadly our experience last month was that of lots of boats all at full chat kicking out lots of wash. I'm fairly convinced that majority of Ricko's and Woods' boats only have 2 throttle positions: closed and wide open. Not to say that it's any fault of the yards of course, and there are a hell of a lot of Richardsons' boats about which would explain the apparent prevalence of them speeding.

Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app

[Jbx5]

I believe this is more directed to a certain speedboat that has been involved with quite a few evening cruises on the plane all over the Bure recently.

John

[marshman]

I agree with Vaughan I am pleased to say!!!

However the ones who really irritate me apart from that speedboat, are the guys in their huge Broom style boat who can cruise only between Wroxham and Ludham and down beyond Acle - you can almost guarantee that even at tickover, they will exceed the posted limit, and they do! Do they ever realise how incongruous they look perched about 12' up in the air? What a stupid waste of money to keep them on the Northern Rivers - I suppose most don't know, or don't care , or both, how stupid they look!!!!! But I suppose each to their own but you would not catch me in one!!!!!

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, marshman said:

guys in their huge Broom style boat

One past us last month on Braydon, he was going so fast that even perched on top he could not see over the bow, frightened the life out of the wife and almost turned us over!.... blithering idiot..or words to that effect.

[Vaughan]

Which brings me to the other oft - discussed "chestnut" : do speed limits refer to boat speed through the water, or to speed over the ground by GPS - known in maritime parlance as "speed made good"?

For me, they have to be calculated by boat speed, shown usually by the engine revs marked on the rev counter.

If not, it would be legally impossible to navigate GYYS, Reedham, St Olaves , Acle or Cantley at anything other than dead slack water.

[Poppy]

17 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Which brings me to the other oft - discussed "chestnut" : do speed limits refer to boat speed through the water, or to speed over the ground by GPS - known in maritime parlance as "speed made good"?

For me, they have to be calculated by boat speed, shown usually by the engine revs marked on the rev counter.

If not, it would be legally impossible to navigate GYYS, Reedham, St Olaves , Acle or Cantley at anything other than dead slack water.

"Speed limits are in force throughout the Broads. The limits are 3, 4, 5, or 6 mph, clearly signed on riverbanks and are in statute miles per hour measured 'over the ground'."

https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/navigating-the-broads/byelaws-and-speed-limits

Daft, hen't it.

 

[BroadAmbition]

almost turned us over!...

Really?

Griff

[Bluebell]

1 hour ago, BroadAmbition said:

almost turned us over!...

Really?

Griff

Perhaps it was a canoe!

[ChrisB]

4 hours ago, Jemaki said:

One past us last month on Braydon, he was going so fast that even perched on top he could not see over the bow, frightened the life out of the wife and almost turned us over!.... blithering idiot..or words to that effect.

 

1 hour ago, BroadAmbition said:

almost turned us over!...

Really?

Griff

Many years ago now, Judith and I came to Norfolk to look around. We stayed for a week at the Sea Marge in Overstrand and as we were in no hurry thought we might hire a boat and stay a bit longer. There was virtually no choice and we ended up with a the most awful of bathtubs from Alphacraft that gloried in the name "Tempest", it was a wreck.

Anyhow crossing Breydon, stemming the ebb, in this gutless bathtub we were passed by an Ocean TSDY of about 38/40ft using a lot of power and dragging her stern and creating the most enormous wash. It passed so close there was no way I could turn into the tsunami, it picked us up and we surfed sideways for as much as 3 to 4 metres at a very steep angle.

I will be honest that experience I found more unnerving than sailing 3000nm to the Azores and back in a well found Folkboat.

If I had been in my own boat I would have been tempted to reach for the "Very"

 

[Wussername]

Ah! The Sea Marge. The most wonderful afternoon teas. No wonder Mr Churchill stayed there. 

As for designer shorts. On the bridge, all the gear, no idea. 

Thankfully in the minority. The majority are considerate and mindful of their responsibilities with regard to others. As ever it is the few that we remember for their behavior with justified criticism.

 

[Broads01]

11 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Personally I don't think there is a lot of serious speeding on the Broads these days . . .    Not compared to how it used to be.

Vaughan, for the first time ever I think, I have the opposite opinion. Based on my recent experience, there are many, many folk out there going at full throttle, Breydon style, in 4 and 5 mph limits making considerable wash. Unfortunately the rangers are far too few to do what's needed and it seems enforcement is non-existent.

[Chelsea14Ian]

This past week haven't seen many speeding. Yet seen a number going very slow.For example on the Ant and today heading to South Walsham.

[ZimbiIV]

Ian, that's because they were avoiding being attacked by low lying bridges!

paul

[Upcycler]

13 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Prosecuting someone for speeding is actually very difficult. 

If I am not mistaken, speed cameras work on contact and measure a fixed distance, this way speed can be calculated. If it works on the roads, the same can be done on the rivers. Wash will never come into it as it always depends on the hull if my memory serves me right.

[MaceSwinger]

2 hours ago, Broads01 said:

Vaughan, for the first time ever I think, I have the opposite opinion. Based on my recent experience, there are many, many folk out there going at full throttle, Breydon style, in 4 and 5 mph limits making considerable wash. Unfortunately the rangers are far too few to do what's needed and it seems enforcement is non-existent.

I was very surprised on both passes through Irstead to see the pretty BA boathouse closed up with the launch inside. With people off a day boat swimming from the BA moorings it might have been nice to have had a ranger about! Come to think of it, I only saw one ranger the whole week we were away.

[grendel]

excessive wash does come into it, as it is evidence of exceeding the speed limit. as hull type can be determined by boat type.

the important thing is for all responsible boat users to do their bit and stand up to the fore when asked if they will testify in court if necessary, without people willing to testify, it becomes very difficult for the Authority to pursue a persistent offender, unless they can catch them in the act themselves, even if you just get a picture of the boat in the act, then you would still need to be willing to testify for them to be able to use that as evidence.

[Vaughan]

9 hours ago, Broads01 said:

Vaughan, for the first time ever I think, I have the opposite opinion.

No problem Simon!  I did put a hard hat emoji in my post, as I was prepared for differing opinions.  I wanted to discuss it on the forum though, as it helps to make sure we have things in proportion. 

I well remember all the wash of the 50s, 60s and even 70s and all the devastating bank erosion that went with it.  Compared to those days I suggest things are remarkably calm.  I have taken several Broads holidays in the past 3 years, each of two weeks duration and I now have my own boat, so my opinion, like yours, is based on what I have seen.  I admit though, that I do avoid the high season in August!

For me, the most important thing is wash.  It is, after all, the main reason for the speed limit!  Almost the only reason in fact.  When I am giving a trial run and I am asked about speed I always say  "Look behind you, and look at your wash.  If you are not making any wash then you are almost certainly not speeding".

[MauriceMynah]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

For me, the most important thing is wash.  It is, after all, the main reason for the speed limit!  Almost the only reason in fact.

And that, I think, is the difficult issue, and the one that causes all the problems for those trying to write any legislation.

It is speed through water that creates wash, but it is speed over land that is measurable. Add to that the problems of measuring wash. That also has two impacting criteria, it's height and it's speed along the bank. To illustrate (in case I'm not getting the terminology right) 

We shall say I'm in a 7mph (over land) speed limit. If I'm doing 7mph through the water against a 7mph tidal flow, My land speed is 0 mph. The speed of my wash against the bank is also 0 mph yet that wash might well be 30cm. Is that wash doing any damage to a soft bank? (I genuinely don't know).

But, if I turn and run with the tide and to maintain steerage have a speed through water of 3mph, my speed over land is now 10 mph, but with no wash. Should I be done for speeding? 

Until there is a reliable way of measuring and recording the overall effect that the speed of a boat is having we will continue having this conversation.

Photographs of reckless speeds will, I imagine, be helpful, video's even more so, but issues can be clouded by exaggerations such as "it nearly turned us over" however heartfelt they may be.

Jemaki  will no doubt have noticed how his good report of reckless and thoughtless behaviour, was deflected into a debate as to how close his craft was to capsizing. This was neither the intention nor the subject of his post. 

[Vaughan]

Well said John!  Excellent post.

I wanted to add another factor : in "the old days" there was polluted water which had killed off the reeds along the bank, so the earth rhond was exposed to wash erosion.  Nowadays the water is healthy and there is a strong reed fringe to protect the banks.  So speeding "per se" is not doing any damage. 

What becomes more important to me therefore, is speeding through moorings, and not slowing down enough when passing moored boats.

[Timbo]

Reading the news this morning has offered me a new descriptor for a large number of boats creating wash. 'A Trump Parade'! 

[MauriceMynah]

AKA Cruise in Company !

I bet the wooden boat show must have caused chaos

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

Jemaki  will no doubt have noticed how his good report of reckless and thoughtless behaviour, was deflected into a debate as to how close his craft was to capsizing.

That's OK MM...I can take it on the chin...all of them.