Sorry Marshman, But Here I Go!

[MauriceMynah]

Sorry Marshman, I’m not trying to grind your gears but….

There are fewer ducks around these days.

Normally when I read something Marshman has written I have a default value of either I agree with him or I’m probably wrong. I have to say that in this case I think Marshman is incorrect in his assertion that the ducks have just moved away from the masses and into the tranquility of the various flood relief lagoons. In the many years of visiting the broads it has been noticable to me that in the last ten, there has been a diminishing number of ducks, geese, moorehens and coots about, and I find myself asking “Why?”.

For my mind it is a combination of things, but first I’ll take the elephant in the room. The Otter. I didn’t see a single one in the three weeks I was cruising, but their increasing numbers is quite well documented here and in other places, so are they responsible? Well yes and no! I’m certain they take a significant number of ducks etc but they are only part of the picture.

Predators generally are on the up. Herons I saw in abundance and they are known for taking the odd duckling when offered. It used to be that to see a heron was a bit of a treat. This year I was seeing them in great numbers. Marsh Harriers are another preditor that used to be so rare, now they’re so common I was seeing them on an hourly basis.

Pike fishermen are becoming better educated on how to handle their catch, I am seeing far fewer dead pike than I used to. Again, duckling is on their menu too. (The pike’s menue, not the anglers) So, all in all the numbers of predators is increasing, so is that responsible? Well yes and no!

There is something that has diminished in the last ten years too. Visitors. Yes, us lot. That massive tonnage of  Sunblest that was hurled at any passing wildfowl has fallen. For the ducks, this “gravy train” is many carrages shorter than it used to be. Result, fewer Mallard munching, fewer Geese a guzzling and fewer Coots a crunching.

Hurl a Hovis crust at a passing Greebe and he’ll look at you with distain and dive away from it. Anyone noticed a decline in Greebe numbers? No! They’re doing just fine thank you. Swan numbers seem to be pretty stable which does perhaps question my logic, but to all rules there are exceptions, for me Swans seem to be one.

So Mr Marshman sir, I hope you’re not feeling too much like that famous “Bowl of petunias” but I await your take on this with interest.

 

 

[Regulo]

With regard to swan numbers, there's a pair on Barton with 9 cygnets (started with 10). I can't remember seeing such a brood reaching almost maturity, with the loss of only one. Funnily, on that part of Barton, I haven't seen an otter this year. Connection?

[LondonRascal]

This is tricky, because it is about personal recollection which as we know kinda gets a bit wonky the more years that pass.  But, yes I would agree with John here and I would think that if anything Otters might be causing Anglers more of a headache than Ducks.

I don't perceive Swans to be any less than usual but what struck me (and I am sorry if this is seen as a bad thing these days) I had 5 slices of bread and a roll left over when I was last on the Broads, so instead of throwing in the bin I thought I would feed such to the Ducks. We came all the way from the Bure up the Ant and stopped on Barton Broad - no Ducks were seen. Some Swans got them on Barton and that was in April.

It struck me because it would be the default after a days cruising thing to do - moor up, have tea and feed the Ducks after  you would get a couple and before long 4 and more as 'quack spread'. Having them come along the side decks, tapping at the glass it was epic but you simply do not see this now.

Here is an example, Hickling in 1992. (For some reason photo is not showing but click link to see)

 

[Arthur]

Don't forget another predator that was certainly causing reduction in water fowl a few years ago.

Mink

 

 

[VetChugger]

Don't you like ducks and swans then Robin?

Feeding them bread has, for some time now, been recognised as a factor in the decline of health especially. Feed them bread all summer, they don't know how to look for their natural food when you are not around chucking in mothers pride! Famine!

[SwanR]

Just go to Salhouse Broad. There were plenty of ducks there back in May. And yes, they almost came on board the boat!

[grendel]

wasnt Geoffrey plagued with a pair of ducks there.

[vanessan]

We have had ducks on board recently, peering through windows and the sunroof. They are definitely more prevalent on the southern rivers now. 

I can't agree about geese being in decline. There seems to be more greylag than ever and egyptian geese too. Canada geese seem to congregate on the Yare but I have not seen many on the northern rivers. About 20 years ago a few barnacle geese were around but they seem to have disappeared altogether. Coots and moorhens do seem to be less obvious these days. It wasn't that long ago that black swans were on Salhouse but I haven't seen any for a few years now. 

There aren't even any ducks or geese in the emoticons!

 

 

[Vaughan]

You can hardly walk, or row, in Thorpe for the numbers of duck, geese, swans and assorted waterfowl. Thorpe Town Council are said to be about to declare them subject to council tax, to try and pay for the newly nationalised River Green. They blame it all on the owner of Hearts Cruisers but he has "not responded to their approaches".

 

Joking apart, MM is quite right to bring this up and it is a most important matter to discuss.

Before I came on holiday in May I had not been on the Broads for 30 years and I saw some big differences in the wildlife. One or two coots; I don't remember seeing a moorhen and I never saw a kingfisher, even on the upper Yare. That was a big dis-appointment. I remarked in my holiday report that there were no duck on Rockland Broad and I thought that was because they were wild duck, and had been put off by my moored boat. Or had they been put off by otters?

There are far too many geese but they are a different sort of problem. They feed in the fields all day (and upset the farmers) and then come to places like Wroxham Broad where they can roost for the night and have a jolly good poop all over the front of the NBYC clubhouse lawns. Wroxham Broad seems a very busy place but it is usually almost deserted at night. It is legal to shoot geese in the winter and a lot of people do, which helps keep the numbers down.

There seems no doubt to me, that the balance of nature is changing on the Broads, as it has done once or twice in the past. In my opinion, this is due to water quality. The Broads water used to be polluted (let's face it) but it is much healthier now, which attracts more species which used to be rare or extinct in the 70s and 80s. Good water means more reeds, so bitterns are now fairly commonplace (hooray). We can also see marsh harriers, circling around and dipping down into the reeds, which I had never seen here before. It's lovely to see them, but what are they eating?

Good clear water means a lot more fish, so a huge increase in the number of grebe, which used to be rare. Are there more pike, or less? Maybe an angler like Peter can tell us?

And so we come to the "otter" in the room. They were extinct in England because of nitrate pollution of the waterways (not just navigable ones) but they were later re-introduced to the wild amid much publicity by Philip Wayre. Now they have no natural enemies, nice clear water, plenty of breeding ground and loads of fish. They also have learned to have no fear of humans.

Doesn't this ring a bell? A bit of "déjà vu"??

If anyone has still got any old Coypu traps in the garage, or the boatshed, better look them out. I have a feeling we may be needing them again, quite soon.

 

[addicted]

When we came here from the river Gt. Ouse in 2010 we were struck by how much less bird life there is than on the Ouse. There is less of most types particularly Grebe but geese are about the same in numbers it seems there certainly seems to be less swans here.

 

 

Carole

[marshman]

Do I get a special prize for having my name in highlights??

I cannot really answer this question as I have no accurate data to relate to but all I can do is to recount my own personal experiences - I am no different really to anyone else but perhaps am more aware of the natural scene than some. Equally I do not ever recall saying that ducks were or were not in decline, just that overall I did not think that birdlife generally was declining!

Its raining this afternoon so lets look at them in a bit more detail but always bearing in mind one important fact and that is that Donald Trump or not, climate is changing. We may not see or heed this but i think wildlife do and move accordingly.

Geese generally are a complete nuisance - both greylag and Canada do untold damage to the reed fringes early in the year and there have been some half hearted efforts to control them - these need redoubling but of course the issue will be that any real effort will be met by a flood of complaints about the whole issue. Egyptian geese ( shelduck really!) too but that will be difficult since they do not seem to have a brain and they breed anywhere and at any time!  Swans fine with plenty about - the black ones were I think sorted out by the mutes!!

Grebes as you say are in fine fettle - S Walsham some weeks ago had some 10 pairs on the  Inner Broad alone and Blackhorse is another hotspot. Come the autumn I  have no doubt we shall see Little Grebe about in numbers. As Vaughan said, kingfishers this year are down in numbers but they suffer from good and bad years due in particular to breeding burrows being flooded - did we have a lot of higher tides earlier , I cannot remember specifically?

Not sure about coot and moorhen to be honest. When I was young, possibly even before Vaughans era (surely not? ) I seem to recall more but even then it was quite variable but yes there were more in the rivers - was this because farmers kept dykes clearer then or do the moorhens now prefer the more overgrown dykes for more peace and quiet? Coots seem to vary a lot from year to year and I would suggest that other factors may be in play. Winters on the near Continent used to be harsher with ice skating common in the Low Countries and France - not now so why move to the Broads for the winter?? I do recall seeing a flock of over 500 on Hickling this winter when it was really chilly earlier but they clearly all went back home somewhere.

Funny you should comment on ducks but I say loads on last Monday in the Fleet Dyke / S Walsham area - at least 3/4 lots of tiny babies and plenty bigger afloat on the Broad - I think the jury is out on those!! It could be just that at the moment they are sitting on their 2/3rd brood??

Vaughan - I am not convinced the otters are an issue to anyone. Otters have clearly defined territories and just do not tolerate overcrowding. When the little pups grow up they are dispatched elsewhere in no uncertain terms - they do not stay locally and overcrowd the parents stretch. Vaughan may recall Philip Wayre who had the Otter Trust at Earsham - he closed that down some years before he died as he had nowhere to release the new ones he bred in this locality. The Broads were "full" of otters, 10 plus years ago and whilst they do take some baby birds but why bother when the rivers are actually heaving with fish?

Climate change - what we are definitely seeing is birds adapting to higher temperatures and changing their ranges. Who would have thought the Broads would have seen breeding avocets? This year I have seen more bittern than ever as indeed have others. Marsh Harriers too and lots of Little Egret with occasional spoonbills.

Anecdotally I did happen to spend some 12 hours afloat on that very very cold weekend earlier in the year. I guess the dykes were frozen solid, but the rivers were quite literally heaving with birds on the way to Yarmouth - I have never seen so many with every reach home to literally hundreds!

I am sure we are seeing changes in distribution of some species, but is there any really firm long term evidence? It would be hard to prove but what we can say is that the range of birds we once never saw , is increasing due in part to greater conservation care by those dreaded bodies, and indeed I suspect, by farmers and the trend away from cereal growing on our marshes back to  more marshland. Lets hope that trend continues.

Its now stopped raining - off outside to feed the birds!!!!!

 

 

 

[Vaughan]

15 minutes ago, marshman said:

I am sure we are seeing changes in distribution of some species, but is there any really firm long term evidence? It would be hard to prove but what we can say is that the range of birds we once never saw , is increasing due in part to greater conservation care by those dreaded bodies, and indeed I suspect, by farmers and the trend away from cereal growing on our marshes back to  more marshland. Lets hope that trend continues.

 

[vanessan]

More thinking on bird life. 20 years ago I can remember hearing loads of willow warblers, heard one this year for the first time for ages. Cetti's warblers were unheard of 15/20 years ago but can be heard pretty well everywhere now. Anyone noticed how common pied wagtails are now? So it's not just on the water that things have changed, its on the riverbanks and in the woods too.

[ExMemberBobdog]

Hundreds of swans on Hickling!

[JennyMorgan]

No question that ducks, grebe, moorhens and coots are in obvious decline on the Southern rivers. Indeed a duck is quite a rarity nowadays. Coincidently populations of both fox and otters are worryingly on the increase. 

[Paul]

It seems to me the numbers began to decrease as soon as we were told to stop feeding them bread .......

 

[SteveO]

One of the things I have seen of late is a marked increase in the number of herons. Judging by the interest shown by one of these towards a moorhen nest close to our moorings, I suspect that heron wouldn't be averse to taking the odd waterfowl egg or even a chick.

On the subject of re-introduced species,  whether otters, lynx, wolves or (dare I say it) beaver; the reason that many of these were eliminated in the first place was that they were a bloody nuisance. 

Cheers

Steve

 

[vanessan]

A couple of years back we were having breakfast and watching a mother duck with 6 fairly small ducklings paddle around. A heron suddenly swooped down, grabbed one of the youngsters and was gone with it. Mother duck was very distressed and herded the remaining ducklings into the reeds. My breakfast became rather unpalatable after that and, whilst I know and accept that nature has its cruel sides, I haven't felt very kindly towards herons since. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

There's lots of ducks on our boat 

[Finlay]

May 2022 not seen one coot on the northern rivers, very few ducks of any kind moorhens also. Moored on fleet Dyke and saw an other take a duckling. It seems pretty obvious to me what the problem is

[YnysMon]

On the other hand, a duck hitched a ride on our boat when we were just below Horning a couple of weeks ago. Cheeky so and so. I'm still seeing quite a lot of ducks around. 

[Lulu]

I was only thinking last week there seemed to be more ducks around. I havent seen any coots recently but there’s an adorable moorhen family in our marina. The chicks are so cute. They look like those fluffy microphone covers. I hope they survive. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

Yes saw a moorhen the other day in Stalham.Not seen as many coots lately. Lots of ducks and swans.

[ChrisB]

The Broads are a somewhat unique habitat in having five UK apex predators, who rarely if ever predate each other.

The American Mink

The Marsh Harrier. Norfolk is home to one quarter of the UK population of breeding females some 100 birds. In Winter over 50 birds roost in the Hickling reserve.

The Otter. Who's increase in numbers throughout the UK has coincided with a huge decline in it's favourite food :- Eels.

Marsh and Carr living Foxes the upper canalised Ant area is full of them.

Pike.

It would be interesting to get some expert input from someone who is tasked in monitoring and counting the species.

Certainly 15 years ago Paddys, Ludham Bridge, Womack, Salhouse. Ranworth mooring were covered in Mallard and their hybrids begging food.

[Vaughan]

I think it is well known that out of a clutch of maybe 10 or 12 ducklings, more than half of them will be taken by pike before they are about 3 weeks old.  After that they are big enough to have a fair chance of survival.  But are the rest now being taken by the otter?  We know an otter can take an adult greylag goose, as there is film of it on this forum, right in the centre of Wroxham in plain public view.

Another thing that is well known about the otter : like the fox, they kill for the sake of killing, not just for feeding.