Sad Tale Or Typical?

[Cheesey69]

Hi all,

Seen on another place a hirer stating although they enjoyed the experience they wont do it again.

A couple of stated reasons was lack of river manners and people watching while they struggle to moor.

The mooring bit is a common complaint and I do think no amount of training can cover everything and its more down to practice and developing a way of doing things.

Plus a thick skin.

And for me, installing a cleat amidships really helps as one rope does all and getting the crew off with both ropes helps a lot.

But as to manners, is this down to Covid? I do take ropes to help but to be honest, covid never crossed my mind and I may be intruding.

Or is it down to a lot of newbies and everyone likes a show? 

[CambridgeCabby]

It’s human nature to watch boats mooring , and everybody hirer or privateer alike will at some stage make a complete c**k-up whilst doing so  and Sod’s law dictates that this will happen when the largest amount of onlookers are present .

Katie and I do and will always assist any boater mooring (covid or not) and I witnessed many others over the last week doing similar.

As far as a centre cleat is concerned ,we have one, many hire craft do not have them and I would presume this is down to the trip hazard they present to those not used to the boat when walking on the side decks .

so in a nutshell , I would say the hirers you refer to were merely unfortunate in the fellow boaters they encountered ;as I have said previously many times the vast majority of the boaters on The Broads both private and hire are a helpful and friendly bunch

[Bluebell]

1 hour ago, CambridgeCabby said:

It’s human nature to watch boats mooring , and everybody hirer or privateer alike will at some stage make a complete c**k-up whilst doing so  and Sod’s law dictates that this will happen when the largest amount of onlookers are present .

Katie and I do and will always assist any boater mooring (covid or not) and I witnessed many others over the last week doing similar.

As far as a centre cleat is concerned ,we have one, many hire craft do not have them and I would presume this is down to the trip hazard they present to those not used to the boat when walking on the side decks .

so in a nutshell , I would say the hirers you refer to were merely unfortunate in the fellow boaters they encountered ;as I have said previously many times the vast majority of the boaters on The Broads both private and hire are a helpful and friendly bunch

Like you I will often help other boaters to moor, sometimes out of self-preservation, but generally just to be helpful. Most are very grateful for the help, but occasionally my offer to help has been spurned - good job I’m thick skinned!

[NorfolkNog]

Mrs Nog and I have assisted other boaters many times but I always ask first if I/we can help. 9 times out of 10 gratefully received. 

Conversely I do not like 'armchair admirals' who try to give me un-solicited instructions! 

[Cal]

With our own boat we always declined offers of help after a couple of well intentioned people pulled on the bowrope and smashed it into the bank damaging the boat.

 

After  that we never accepted help. Even with hire boats!

[Ray]

I think an audience can make some of us a bit more self conscious when mooring... which of course almost guarantees errors 🙂

Always best to laugh at ourselves and come round for a second (third, fourth!) attempt.

Never display fear, that's when they attack 😂

[grendel]

that and there are a lot of other people new to the broads experience out on the water too, who may not know to step in and offer help, or may not feel qualified to offer assistance. I too always try to help others when mooring, so much so that one year at ranworth I was asked if that was my job assisting mooring.

[Broads01]

I like the idea of a centre cleat but I don't think I've ever seen one on a boat I've hired.

When helping others, I tend to offer to take a rope for them. Nine times out of ten this is gratefully received. If it's politely declined that's fine.

[RS2021]

23 minutes ago, Broads01 said:

I like the idea of a centre cleat but I don't think I've ever seen one on a boat I've hired.

A centre rope is virtually standard on Narrowboats on the canals - hire or private. I do find it a great inconvenience not having one on the broads. It makes such a difference in handling a boat when mooring.

[NorfolkNog]

3 hours ago, Cal said:

a couple of well intentioned people pulled on the bowrope and smashed it into the bank

Good point - we moored up at Neatishead staithe one time and someone grabbed a rope and bashed us into the quay heading. Mrs Nog is quite nimble on her feet though and we usually get moored up quite quickly. Not that we haven't made a hash of it though! 

The way we do it is that Mrs Nog gathers up both bow and stern rope in readiness and then steps ashore with the boat under control. It works for us - most of the time!! 

[Smoggy]

The trouble with a centre line is that at somewhere like reedham with a good tide running as soon as the boat starts to bob out the boat gets a 1.5:1 advantage over the person holding the line increasing as the angle gets bigger, admittedly if running into the tide and holding stern line only it's even worse.

As long as you don't let the angle get going they're ok.

I have my mooring lines long enough so they all run to the stern so I can step off with both but that is also a bad idea on a hireboat with inexperienced crew, I doubt their is a perfect solution with anything boaty.

[grendel]

as a generally solo boater i always run both bow and stern lines to the location where i will be stepping off, generally I will have laid the lines out as I unmoor from the previous location, so that I can step off with both lines in hand and then decide which end needs tying off first, often I will do a temporary tie up with one of the ropes first, then go around adjusting my lines until the boat is floating about 12" off the quay heading when pushed gently from the bank, once the boat is secure I shut off the engine and then check to see if i will need spring line etc etc, on lads week when we have a full crew aboard, I stand where i am told and tie up when I am told (as every good crew man should) then coil down the remaining rope neatly.

[Hylander]

It is such a pity that the use of the ropes is not something that is foremost in the 'run through' when folk board the boat in the first place.      If only it was they would realise what a help having the ropes ready and in the right place helps so much.  It is so obvious to bring the ropes (as they as they are long enough) back down to the stern in readiness to moor but something that is so obvious once you know how isn't always uppermost in your mind when you first moor.     I have limited mobility and cannot get on and off the boat to moor so I always helm.     Hubby brings the ropes down to the stern and then it is just a matter of tying up , using the tide to help you.   Once you have tied up you can then go back and smarten up your ropes at leisure.

 

 

 

 

[eddybear]

10 hours ago, NorfolkNog said:

The way we do it is that Mrs Nog gathers up both bow and stern rope in readiness and then steps ashore with the boat under control. It works for us - most of the time!!

This is the way I do it but no Mrs Nog to help as most of the time single-handed

[Vaughan]

16 minutes ago, Hylander said:

It is such a pity that the use of the ropes is not something that is foremost in the 'run through' when folk board the boat in the first place.   

Excuse me, but who says it isn't?

There are many things to explain to first time hirers, but the use of ropes when mooring, is one of them.

[Mondeoman]

I think the river manners is people bringing their driving manners onto a boat, how they drive their car is how they think you steer a boat.

[JanetAnne]

4 minutes ago, Mondeoman said:

I think the river manners is people bringing their driving manners onto a boat, how they drive their car is how they think you steer a boat.

That explains it... my mondeo aint got a straight panel on it 

[SteveO]

Many people have booked "staycation" holidays or have panic-bought boats, caravans or campers this year without prior experience, so you are bound to find some for whom the reality turns out not as enjoyable as the expectation. You will find a number of selfish morons in any cross-section of society but I have to say that Covid seems to have brought them to the fore, so bad driving manners are to be expected from some quarters.  All I would say is give the idiots plenty of space.  As for mooring, I always offer to help and appreciate the courtesy of a help offer myself but see below before you volunteer. 

A few years ago I managed to soak a forum member from the waist down by being slightly enthusiastic with a burst of engine to take off reverse momentum. Unbeknown to me, the particular combination of engine revs, rudder position, water depth and the new prop kicked up more wash than Proud Mary. Fortunately it was a warm day, so he dried off fairly quickly.

[RumPunch]

If I see a boat coming in, I'll ask if they need a hand. Not normally on public moorings to do so though

[addicted]

We always offer assistance, however more likely than not it's to make sure they don't clatter into us as much as for their benefit.  Although  I do remember one very windy afternoon on the Old West river, we had managed to get moored with difficulty and we spent the rest of the afternoon hopping off and on our boat  bringing in  other boaters attempting to moor against a very strong offshore wind.

 

Carole

[grendel]

2 hours ago, SteveO said:

Many people have booked "staycation" holidays or have panic-bought boats, caravans or campers this year without prior experience, so you are bound to find some for whom the reality turns out not as enjoyable as the expectation. You will find a number of selfish morons in any cross-section of society but I have to say that Covid seems to have brought them to the fore, so bad driving manners are to be expected from some quarters.  All I would say is give the idiots plenty of space.  As for mooring, I always offer to help and appreciate the courtesy of a help offer myself but see below before you volunteer. 

A few years ago I managed to soak a forum member from the waist down by being slightly enthusiastic with a burst of engine to take off reverse momentum. Unbeknown to me, the particular combination of engine revs, rudder position, water depth and the new prop kicked up more wash than Proud Mary. Fortunately it was a warm day, so he dried off fairly quickly.

thats similar to my new proverb, never walk behind griff when he's bailing a dinghy, yep, got a face full.

[BroadAmbition]

Really?

Not sure we had buckets that BIG 

Griff

[Hylander]

5 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Excuse me, but who says it isn't?

There are many things to explain to first time hirers, but the use of ropes when mooring, is one of them.

In all of the years we hired no one but no one ever told us to take the two ropes to the stern.    We were given this bit of very useful information by Robin in one of his videos.

[CambridgeCabby]

2 hours ago, grendel said:

thats similar to my new proverb, never walk behind griff when he's bailing a dinghy, yep, got a face full.

Difficult to walk behind when you’re normally swimming behind a dingy 

[Speleologist]

Mooring, for most relatively inexperienced people, is the most streeful thing they do on a boat. It's a different context, but as a Yachtmaster Instructor I can confidently say that the thing that students worry about most and want to practice most is mooring and manoeuvring in a confined space. To get it right takes a good appreciation of the boat, the wind and the tide. Alongside this it takes lots of practice. I always stress two things to my students:

1. Have a plan and communicate it clearly to the rest of the crew so they know what to expect.

2. If it isn't going right, abort early and try again. This is much safer than trying to salvage an approach that is going wrong.

The question of external help is an interesting one. I am always willing to help, but it is only helpful if it fits the skipper's plan. These days any offer of help is usually from people who have a different first language, so it is better to decline assistance than add to the confusion. However in some circumstances, especially when singlehanded, I may talk to a marinero on the VHF and agree a plan. I also encourage my students to plan on the basis of no external help, and to stick to the plan.

On the Broads I am usually mooring under sail on a boat with no engine and I really don't want well meaning helpers who don't understand the proccess under sail. 

I regard the actual method as being secondary to having a clear plan. I usually use centre cleats if available and I will also use different techniques according to the boat. The manoeuvre in a RIB, in a yacht under power, or in a twin endined moror boar etc. can each be very different.