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Breydon


craigmc67

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14 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

 

The BA, however, could take them to court for dangerous navigation, in which case they would be very liable!

Not sure I like the sound of that one. With my skills I could be liable every trip...

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We all make mistakes .I know the feeling.This is not about private and hire users.It simple DONT attempt to cross in low light without nav lights.I agree with Vaughan, perhaps  consider a court action. That may lay down a marker.

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Its not the BA calling the Coastguard - when you dial 999 thats who the emergency services will switch you through to and they will make the decision. But the issue remains, were they in life threatening danger? The CG made the decision to leave them on board overnight, presumably, but I think its getting rather questionable as to whether you alert an emergency response in settled weather - however it now seems to be the norm.

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I imagine, especially for inexperienced boaters, that running aground in what is a large expanse of water leaves you wondering what to do. A call for help and advice is presumably taken out of your hands at that point and the response is no longer under your control.

Does the boat document folder include instructions on what to do if aground does anyone know?

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44 minutes ago, marshman said:

Its not the BA calling the Coastguard - when you dial 999 thats who the emergency services will switch you through to and they will make the decision. But the issue remains, were they in life threatening danger? The CG made the decision to leave them on board overnight, presumably, but I think its getting rather questionable as to whether you alert an emergency response in settled weather - however it now seems to be the norm.

Back in the 1980s the hirer’s couldn’t call the emergency services or the boat yard, they had to rely on other boats reporting to the harbour masters, boatyards & river inspectors of there situation.

we had a tow boat and at least 4-5 times a season we recovered our boats and others.

so I guess this is why a lot less reported to the emergency services.

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12 hours ago, Mouldy said:

So there’s never been a private boat aground on Breydon?  We’re all equally capable of ‘cocking up’ occasionally.  Let’s not get into the hirers v owners debate on here.  I hired in my own right for well over forty years before buying a boat and crossed Breydon many times without issue.

Can we not just accept that none of us are perfect?

Indeed, No one is perfect, I've had to call on the services of our lifeboat services and paid the donation and still do as far as I'm aware. Thankfully not on the broads but similarly embarrassing (I learnt though and will never do it again!) 

I probably neglected to add that whilst they can (somehow) close to hireboaters I don't believe they can legally close it to private vessels because it's a tidal harbour of great yarmouth (of which they have guardianship over) but I believe there's naught they can do to restrict any boat motoring/sailing in (at present) and thus it's not part of the BA navigation byelaws  (as far as I belive there's no bylaws so its just COLREGS?!). 

Also to add a private boat owner can refuse the services of the lifeboat crew (Although you would need a good reason and long story I know people and reasons who have) and it's likely the coastguard would ask lots more questions.  So sadly there is a big difference between a hireboater and a private boater and thus far more easier to just restrict hireboaters if that's what "Someone" is trying to do. Personally I think if I needed help on breydon (and its not life threating, I'll call a company for help).

Again my point stands thus being that if the safety of the lifeboat/rescue crews are being put at risk over running agrounds then this needs to stop.

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I’ve noticed that our syndicate ‘Owners’ Manual’ cover sheet gives details of who to phone in case of breakdown, but also says in emergency to dial 999. I would have thought that Skipper’s Manuals probably give the same advice.

In the 1980s people didn’t have mobiles. If they had, I’m sure they would have been quick to dial 999 too.

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12 minutes ago, JawsOrca said:

Indeed, No one is perfect, I've had to call on the services of our lifeboat services and paid the donation and still do as far as I'm aware. Thankfully not on the broads but similarly embarrassing (I learnt though and will never do it again!) 

I probably neglected to add that whilst they can (somehow) close to hireboaters I don't believe they can legally close it to private vessels because it's a tidal harbour of great yarmouth (of which they have guardianship over) but I believe there's naught they can do to restrict any boat motoring/sailing in (at present) and thus it's not part of the BA navigation byelaws  (as far as I belive there's no bylaws so its just COLREGS?!). 

Also to add a private boat owner can refuse the services of the lifeboat crew (Although you would need a good reason and long story I know people and reasons who have) and it's likely the coastguard would ask lots more questions.  So sadly there is a big difference between a hireboater and a private boater and thus far more easier to just restrict hireboaters if that's what "Someone" is trying to do. Personally I think if I needed help on breydon (and its not life threating, I'll call a company for help).

Again my point stands thus being that if the safety of the lifeboat/rescue crews are being put at risk over running agrounds then this needs to stop.

No one forces life boat  and rescue service crews to do what they do and I am obviously grateful that they do.  I’m clearly no expert, but saving the crew of a boat stranded on Breydon could surely be much less dangerous than rescuing the crew of a poorly prepared boat that’s gone to sea, possibly in poor weather conditions, or rescuing someone who’s drifted away from a beach on a inflatable or even some one who’s attempted to climb a coastal,cliff and run into difficulties.  What do we do - ban all of those activities too?

We have to accept that there’s risk - there’s risk involved in things we do in everyday life.  Closing areas of The Broads to hirers could impact the survival of the hire industry.  Considering the number of boats that cross Breydon every day, the numbers of incidents are extremely small.

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I usually steer clear of these kind of topics. But I’ve read on here of missing posts, buoys in place etc. So that does lead me to the question as to whether the navigation of Breydon Water is being properly maintained. If I got into a problem on a road because the signs were missing then whoever maintains the highway would surely have a case to answer. 

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Not quite sure why they cannot see buoys - there are plenty about the system . Lots of the East Coast merely rely on withies - just sticks!!!!

I am sure the posts will be replaced in due course - I seem to recall the last posts were replace by contractors as the need quite big kit to shove them in. They are not soft wood either - my memory, not so good these days, suggest they have used old groynes in the past.

Jean - sorry but buoys are quite adequate. If the channel is changing a bit, you cannot keep sticking posts in everywhere!

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11 hours ago, YnysMon said:

I’ve noticed that our syndicate ‘Owners’ Manual’ cover sheet gives details of who to phone in case of breakdown, but also says in emergency to dial 999. I would have thought that Skipper’s Manuals probably give the same advice.

They do. But it relies on people reading them.

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11 hours ago, JawsOrca said:

Personally I think if I needed help on breydon (and its not life threating, I'll call a company for help).

Which is exactly what always used to happen, as described by Tobster and others. 

The Great Yarmouth Port and Haven (P&H) Commissioners were responsible for the P&H and for all the Yare up to the Port of Norwich.  Their subsidiary, the Bure and Waveney Commissioners, covered the rest of the Broads and had their own bye-laws but they were not in charge of the Yare and neither was the BA, until several years after they came "into force".  I believe the law has now changed since the introduction of Peel Ports, who now run the P&H.  Maybe a member who is quick at looking up the bye-laws, can up-date us?

As it is, I totally agree with JawsOrca that there is a heavy over-reaction to minor incidents these days. Everyone always seems to have to be classed as a victim.  The same mentality which closes an entire main railway line for half a day, because someone was seen trespassing on it.

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One things for sure this will still happen come what may.Some will say more action needs to be taken to stop it happening. The EDP and news programmes will still report it often going,OTT.Each year the vast majority of those crossing Breydon do so safely .Sadly there's always  going to be some who will do there own thing and need to be recovered.

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1 hour ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

One things for sure this will still happen come what may.Some will say more action needs to be taken to stop it happening. The EDP and news programmes will still report it often going,OTT.Each year the vast majority of those crossing Breydon do so safely .Sadly there's always  going to be some who will do there own thing and need to be recovered.

Ian that's the problem Local News outlets harp on about it, to the mostly converted who read about the antics regularly.

Most of the people who need educating do not live locally and by the reading on here of some of the antics, lots of them never read or watch any of the briefings posted by numerous outlets about how to keep safe on the broads.

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is this about the previous report or the more recent grounding on breydon, when I went through last month there is a big section right in front of the bridge where the posts are missing and have been replaced by bouys, of course that doesnt help with the instructions saying keep between the posts, and in poor visibility they might not be so readily apparent s the posts are, certainly on an early morning crossing looking back it was impossible to make out the post colours,

of course as a regular, i know the channel bends around just there, but someone new to the area might just head straight up the river thinking that they just had to keep the posts to their left, when in reality needing to go round them, when the tide is in, you cant see the mud banks (though the observant will notice where the birds are walking rather than swimming).

as mentioned anything thats even remotely out of the ordinary gets reported by the local news, and then they have to hype it up to make it sell, which is why we never hear about the thousands of successful crossings of Breydon made, - just the ones that go wrong.

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All you need to know is which way does the Tide Flood ie are we going upstream or downstream. Given normal visibility I don't see a problem.

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I admit I have been stranded in Poole, Chichester, Newtown, Bembridge but simply by trying to be a Smart Ar*e and make the pub! Back in those days.

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Treacherous was how the water on breydon was described, on BBC look East the other day.Yes its at times interesting. Is it treacherous no.All water needs to be given respect. However reporting such as that is unhelpful .

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For vessels without navigation lights why not put a red sticker and a green sticker on the port and starboard sides of the windscreen.

Aid memoire 

I have a little Port wine Left in my glass.

(Assuming you normally drink red port)

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4 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

Aid memoire 

I have a little Port wine Left in my glass.

(Assuming you normally drink red port)

Silly idea ...

What if you only drink white wine, or beer. Or don't drink at all ?

Even more confusing if you drink Sprite, or R.Whites (lemonade), or even a Starburst drink ...

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But what about the simple and obvious solution to the ongoing issue of grounding on Breydon Water - just get the BA to dredge the whole length and width of Breydon to a depth of at least 5 foot. 

Result - No more grounding. Simples

You are welcome :default_hiding:

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